Self assessment vs P87

veryconfused20

Could anyone please advise whether claiming for tax relief via self assessment vs a P87 changes the criteria/eligibility of the expenses you're claiming for? I am trying to claim back exactly the same expenses (via a P87) that people have successfully claimed back via self assessment, and being told that my expenses aren't eligible for tax relief - hence why I'm wondering if the method by which you claim changes what qualifies for relief or not.

Just to clarify in case of doubt, the issue isn't that I personally don't qualify for the same expenses whereas other people in different tax scenarios do, the issue is explicitly the eligibility of these particular expenses. I hope that makes sense. 

Dazed_and_C0nfused

The simple answer is no.

But HMRC probably have a different process (or used to have).

Self Assessment was known as process now check later.

P87 would be check now process later.

So don't be surprised if the people who have self assessed are subsequently investigated and have to pay money back to HMRC.

veryconfused20

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

The simple answer is no.

But HMRC probably have a different process (or used to have).

Self Assessment was known as process now check later.

P87 would be check now process later.

So don't be surprised if the people who have self assessed are subsequently investigated and have to pay money back to HMRC.

This is useful, thank you. Is there a way in which I could demonstrate to HMRC that someone else has received these expenses in a way that they will consider, something that they can look at internally (obviously I wouldn't be expecting HMRC to tell me what they'd seen, I just need them to see it for themselves if you know what I mean). This is with the view to supporting my own case rather than !!!!!! on other people and having them pay back theirs. 

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Not sure what relevance someone elses tax return is to you really.

What are the expenses?

veryconfused20

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Not sure what relevance someone elses tax return is to you really.

What are the expenses?

Training costs. Relevance being that these are people who were (are) employed in the same organisation, same contract/role (it's a large scale training programme), same time, same course, who have claimed back the same expenses. You may very well be correct in that they simply haven't investigated anyone who's applied via self assessment but they are categorically denying these expenses qualify for tax relief, yet have paid them to many colleagues of mine which is why I considered whether, if I could prove this, they may reconsider.

As I say, it's not that my tax scenario doesn't qualify, it's that the expenses don't meet criteria apparently. 

sheramber

Have you considered  if they were to check a colleagues' claim ,when you give his details, including NI no ,  they refuse his claim and demand repayment plus interest from him?

Asking them to check could highlight the wrong claim rather than allow your claim.

veryconfused20

sheramber said:

Have you considered  if they were to check a colleagues' claim ,when you give his details, including NI no ,  they refuse his claim and demand repayment plus interest from him?

Asking them to check could highlight the wrong claim rather than allow your claim.

Since Dazed highlighted the difference in investigation between the two, yes. Prior, no because I was unaware this was potentially likely. Either way, I've been arguing this with HMRC for a year now so I don't want to give up after such commitment when they are still handing back a couple of thousand pounds to people. I'd rather assume there is a greater likelihood they are wrong about my individual claim that hundreds of others for substantially greater amounts.

Dazed_and_C0nfused

veryconfused20 said:

sheramber said:

Have you considered  if they were to check a colleagues' claim ,when you give his details, including NI no ,  they refuse his claim and demand repayment plus interest from him?

Asking them to check could highlight the wrong claim rather than allow your claim.

Since Dazed highlighted the difference in investigation between the two, yes. Prior, no because I was unaware this was potentially likely. Either way, I've been arguing this with HMRC for a year now so I don't want to give up after such commitment when they are still handing back a couple of thousand pounds to people. I'd rather assume there is a greater likelihood they are wrong about my individual claim that hundreds of others for substantially greater amounts.

If you are so certain you have a valid claim why not notify HMRC you want a tax return issuing.

You can then self assess and include the expenses you believe are due.

HMRC then open an enquiry (investigation) and when they settle it in by disallowing the expense you can appeal and take your case to tribunal.

Presumably if you are so convinced your claim in valid you will win.

NB.  What others have self assessed is of no relevance to your own claim.

veryconfused20

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

veryconfused20 said:

sheramber said:

Have you considered  if they were to check a colleagues' claim ,when you give his details, including NI no ,  they refuse his claim and demand repayment plus interest from him?

Asking them to check could highlight the wrong claim rather than allow your claim.

Since Dazed highlighted the difference in investigation between the two, yes. Prior, no because I was unaware this was potentially likely. Either way, I've been arguing this with HMRC for a year now so I don't want to give up after such commitment when they are still handing back a couple of thousand pounds to people. I'd rather assume there is a greater likelihood they are wrong about my individual claim that hundreds of others for substantially greater amounts.

If you are so certain you have a valid claim why not notify HMRC you want a tax return issuing.

You can then self assess and include the expenses you believe are due.

HMRC then open an enquiry (investigation) and when they settle it in by disallowing the expense you can appeal and take your case to tribunal.

Presumably if you are so convinced your claim in valid you will win.

NB.  What others have self assessed is of no relevance to your own claim.

I cannot submit a self assessment because the claim dates too far back so they say; I had this discussion with them at the beginning of the year when they initially declined them. I can do nothing but persist with my current claim due to the timescale now. I have such a strong conviction not only due to witnessing their willingness to refund to others first hand, but being able to evidence how the training met their four point test.

[Deleted User]

What is your evidence you meet the HMRC four point test?