Getting away with falsifying working time

Looking for feedback/advice from impartial people on this.

Like I imagine with every other company, you can't go punching people in/out (time cards, not physically, although that too). The company do however allow us to punch others in/out if they're stood there with you. This was specified years ago when a couple people got busted for punching each other in when the other was going to be late (I forget the punishment. They weren't sacked but probably a warning of some description). 

In our department I'm about the only one who does themselves when punching out (in is irrelevant as we turn up at different minutes). The others do each other, depending who gets there first & one of them never does themselves at all - always gets the others to do it (more on this person in a second...)

This week that person decided to finish work early. To be fair work was absolutely dead & while it may sound an unusual practice to you guys, it's not out of the ordinary when it gets to the tail end of the day & it's absolutely dead & all work is pretty much done for us to decide amongst ourselves that one is going & work (employers) aren't even informed. They know it goes on because they see it on the time cards. When I say "it goes on" I'm not talking daily or even weekly but it'll happen from time to time. Generally Friday - quietest day of the week. 

Anyway, this person decided to not have any of their 1 hour break that day & they left an hour early. We have 30mins deducted for dinner breaks. Before they were leaving they said to one of the others in our department, "don't forget to punch me out at finishing time". 
I took it as they were joking because this has been said in the past. Generally sparks laughter & banter from the other person but to my knowledge it hasn't been done before. I assumed as they were finishing earlier than usual (when people decide amongst themselves to go early, it's usually only 30mins) that they'd actually punch themselves out.

I think one of the top managers know this person left as they phoned this person to do a job & this person had to phone someone else in my department for the job to be done. Whether it was said in their conversation that this person was now at home or whether that was kept hush-hush obviously I don't know.

Out of curiosity at home time I looked at their card - no punch out time. The other person in our department had gone (I was a little behind as I had more stuff to get together before leaving). I thought well they'll probably either get paid up automatically until finishing time or they'll get questioned at some point & may or may not be honest.

When I get in the next morning I thought I'd just check again out of curiosity - and handwritten in the time out slot was the finishing time. Not the persons actual finishing time but the time as though they'd stayed all day - 1 hour after they'd left. Now due to the times, I know exactly who's written this - the person that was asked to punch out a bogus time.

What this equates to with the 1 hour break not being taken that day is 30mins pay on overtime rate of basically stolen time.


This irks me for various reasons.
It's wrong. 
If I did it then I'd be annihilated since they come down on me like a ton of bricks for much lesser things anyway.
They think the sun shines out of this persons back end. Now that'll be a throwaway comment to you guys as obviously you aren't there to see what goes on, but this person literally can do no wrong, even when they do do wrong. 

That last comment will probably have you thinking this stems from jealousy as I've read these forums long enough but far from it. I've never accepted exceptions to the rule/favouritism/whateveryouwishtocallit. If one should get hauled over the coals for XYZ then so should all in my view. 

So obviously I know this has gone on and it involves 2 people. Where I'm at with it is to say something or to leave it.

If I say something I have to trust that 1) work wouldn't let on that it came from me and 2) trust that they wouldn't flip it & come at me for daring to speak out against their Golden Child. 

If I say nothing then obviously The Untouchable One gets away with it, their head grows ever bigger with their I can do what I want attitude & it just quietly irritates me knowing it's not right but I'm keeping quiet about it (which is against what I would usually do). 


I'm not impartial, obviously & nor is anyone who I can trust to ask.

Which is why I'm asking you.
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Comments

  • Brie
    Brie Posts: 9,208
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    Could you mention it casually to the individual whose card it is?  As in "couldn't help but notice the time on your card was wrong when I went to clock you out!  Not trying to diddle the company I hope!!"  (bit of laughing banter to lighten the mood).  That way you could set your mind at rest because it is then down to them to go ahead and commit minor theft or not.
    "Never retract, never explain, never apologise; get things done and let them howl.”
  • Do you have a H&S department/rep ? 

    Report to them as it could cause a serious issue in the case of fire/evacuation etc. Could you do this anonymously?

    Some poor firefighter could be going into a dangerous situation looking for someone who isnt there
  • I would let it go, what they do is nothing to do with you. I get that it’s annoying but there’s no way to win.
  • Dakta
    Dakta Posts: 550
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    edited 19 November 2023 at 3:51PM
    It was a bit of a read, so i may have got the wrong end of the stick but I get the impression you're all milking the system to some degree, some more than others, and management either aren't that aware of it, genuinely aren't bothered, or haven't yet decided to crack down on yet, or may be biding their time so that when they do the ducks are in a row. Some companies are very informally run compared to others but I don't know many that would think kindly of paying for time not worked, especially when it's done on the quiet, but that said it's not your job to manage this (unless it is).  People who take the proverbial usually end up in a bad place without assistance.

    In this environment I'd be simply watching my own back and letting others watch theirs. 




  • Hi,
    if you have another job to go to then be a whistleblower and just accept the scorn from your soon to be ex workmates.
  • Marcon
    Marcon Posts: 9,888
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    edited 19 November 2023 at 5:22PM
    Looking for feedback/advice from impartial people on this.

    Like I imagine with every other company, you can't go punching people in/out (time cards, not physically, although that too). The company do however allow us to punch others in/out if they're stood there with you. This was specified years ago when a couple people got busted for punching each other in when the other was going to be late (I forget the punishment. They weren't sacked but probably a warning of some description). 

    In our department I'm about the only one who does themselves when punching out (in is irrelevant as we turn up at different minutes). The others do each other, depending who gets there first & one of them never does themselves at all - always gets the others to do it (more on this person in a second...)

    This week that person decided to finish work early. To be fair work was absolutely dead & while it may sound an unusual practice to you guys, it's not out of the ordinary when it gets to the tail end of the day & it's absolutely dead & all work is pretty much done for us to decide amongst ourselves that one is going & work (employers) aren't even informed. They know it goes on because they see it on the time cards. When I say "it goes on" I'm not talking daily or even weekly but it'll happen from time to time. Generally Friday - quietest day of the week. 

    Anyway, this person decided to not have any of their 1 hour break that day & they left an hour early. We have 30mins deducted for dinner breaks. Before they were leaving they said to one of the others in our department, "don't forget to punch me out at finishing time". 
    I took it as they were joking because this has been said in the past. Generally sparks laughter & banter from the other person but to my knowledge it hasn't been done before. I assumed as they were finishing earlier than usual (when people decide amongst themselves to go early, it's usually only 30mins) that they'd actually punch themselves out.

    I think one of the top managers know this person left as they phoned this person to do a job & this person had to phone someone else in my department for the job to be done. Whether it was said in their conversation that this person was now at home or whether that was kept hush-hush obviously I don't know.

    Out of curiosity at home time I looked at their card - no punch out time. The other person in our department had gone (I was a little behind as I had more stuff to get together before leaving). I thought well they'll probably either get paid up automatically until finishing time or they'll get questioned at some point & may or may not be honest.

    When I get in the next morning I thought I'd just check again out of curiosity - and handwritten in the time out slot was the finishing time. Not the persons actual finishing time but the time as though they'd stayed all day - 1 hour after they'd left. Now due to the times, I know exactly who's written this - the person that was asked to punch out a bogus time.

    What this equates to with the 1 hour break not being taken that day is 30mins pay on overtime rate of basically stolen time.


    This irks me for various reasons.
    It's wrong. 
    If I did it then I'd be annihilated since they come down on me like a ton of bricks for much lesser things anyway.
    They think the sun shines out of this persons back end. Now that'll be a throwaway comment to you guys as obviously you aren't there to see what goes on, but this person literally can do no wrong, even when they do do wrong. 

    That last comment will probably have you thinking this stems from jealousy as I've read these forums long enough but far from it. I've never accepted exceptions to the rule/favouritism/whateveryouwishtocallit. If one should get hauled over the coals for XYZ then so should all in my view. 

    So obviously I know this has gone on and it involves 2 people. Where I'm at with it is to say something or to leave it.

    If I say something I have to trust that 1) work wouldn't let on that it came from me and 2) trust that they wouldn't flip it & come at me for daring to speak out against their Golden Child. 

    If I say nothing then obviously The Untouchable One gets away with it, their head grows ever bigger with their I can do what I want attitude & it just quietly irritates me knowing it's not right but I'm keeping quiet about it (which is against what I would usually do). 


    I'm not impartial, obviously & nor is anyone who I can trust to ask.

    Which is why I'm asking you.
    A straw poll of strangers (who can be bothered to read all the above, which further narrows the field), responding on the basis of what you admit is a 'non-impartial' post. Not exactly a great basis for decision taking. 

    You've certainly made this into a huge issue, but I wonder (given that you admit other people do it) if this is simply resentment on your part that you aren't the Favoured One in the eyes of management?

    What exactly do you want to achieve? Decide what exactly you want to accomplish and then weigh up the pros and cons of possible courses of action - and then take your own decision, because you're the one who will have to live with the consequences. 
    Googling on your question might have been both quicker and easier, if you're only after simple facts rather than opinions!  
  • Grumpy_chap
    Grumpy_chap Posts: 14,346
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    I'd let this go.
    Maybe focus on what you can do to be the one who can do no wrong 
  • Alanp
    Alanp Posts: 667
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    Surely if one day you want to leave early nothing can be done as you could cite that x person does/did it so why can’t I?
  • B0bbyEwing
    B0bbyEwing Posts: 1,176
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    Brie said:
    Could you mention it casually to the individual whose card it is?  As in "couldn't help but notice the time on your card was wrong when I went to clock you out!  Not trying to diddle the company I hope!!"  (bit of laughing banter to lighten the mood).  That way you could set your mind at rest because it is then down to them to go ahead and commit minor theft or not.
    Not really. For starters it wasn't me to clock them out so technically speaking, "what you doing looking at my card". 
    Also, whenever you point out to this person that they're less than perfect you get a response of don't give a S or F. 
    And while they haven't come and told me directly that they don't particularly like me, they have a habit of whispering a little too loudly when they think they're out of ear shot. 
    No that doesn't form the basis or even part of why I've asked the question.
    Yes I understand that me saying that wont convince people otherwise & that it must be some kind of revenge plot (because that's jucier). 

    But in short, no. I couldn't really say to them.

    Do you have a H&S department/rep ? 

    Report to them as it could cause a serious issue in the case of fire/evacuation etc. Could you do this anonymously?

    Some poor firefighter could be going into a dangerous situation looking for someone who isnt there
    We do have that dept yes. Kind of mixed in with HR really. Sort of cover everything.

    They're also hit & miss. Some times they can be totally on board & other times you'll report something & they'll come down on you. For example, there's various bosses at my company & I did something that one of the bosses told me to do. I reached out to HR to try & get the situation resolved (it was involving another worker continuously acting up) & was basically told I should've ignored the boss & not done what I'd been told to do.

    So as I say, it's hit & miss.

    Ef79 said:
    I would let it go, what they do is nothing to do with you. I get that it’s annoying but there’s no way to win.
    Thanks for response.
    Yes, I agree it's not anything to do with me. It just really gets to me that Joe Bloggs can do what they want & get away with it but if I breathe too many times in the day then I'm done for timewasting & that's the main reason I'm asking. 
    But I appreciate your post.

    Dakta said:
    It was a bit of a read, so i may have got the wrong end of the stick but I get the impression you're all milking the system to some degree, <snip>




    Then that's my fault because from the bit that came after this it seems you have got the wrong end of the stick.

    Nobody else is asking to be paid for more time than they've worked. If by going early you think I meant that we all falisfy our records then that's where the misunderstanding is. Say I was to finish at 7pm but I knocked off at 6:30pm because the place was dead & there were enough staff left to cover anything that may come on, I'd punch out at 6:30pm & only expect to be paid until then rather than the usual 7pm.

    Hi,
    if you have another job to go to then be a whistleblower and just accept the scorn from your soon to be ex workmates.
    No other job to go to at the moment.
    And hardly the most harmonious of environments as it is anyway to be honest.
    I'm totally ready for the "and I can see why" but even with a response like that anyone must concede that there's certainly going to be more to it than what I can put here.

    Marcon said:

    You've certainly made this into a huge issue, but I wonder (given that you admit other people do it) if this is simply resentment on your part that you aren't the Favoured One in the eyes of management?

    What exactly do you want to achieve? Decide what exactly you want to accomplish and then weigh up the pros and cons of possible courses of action - and then take your own decision, because you're the one who will have to live with the consequences. 
    How has this been made in to a "huge issue"? I've said literally nothing at work. I came online for impartial views. If I had come here & said - "someone had a false time card, what do you people think should be done" you'd no doubt point out that there's insufficient detail. So I gave as much detail as I could, you could pick what's relevant & not & then offer your view.

    Hardly making it a "HUGE issue".

    I also knew that people would suspect that it's jealousy on my part. There's literally nothing I can do to stop you forming that opinion so beyond saying it's not the case, I wont even try because you're unlikely to change your opinion anyway. 
    It's not just our department. I see it going on in other departments too - There could be 4 people doing XYZ but as soon as that other 1 does it, that 1 will get hauled in to the office. Now I know you'll probably say things like maybe that 1 turns in late & the other 4 are on time etc but it's really not that at all. 

    As for what I'd want to achieve from it - simple, for the company to see that Mr. Perfect is not so perfect after all. 

    But to put a little balance on that because you'll think I'm just out to bring people down when I'm not - I've actually gone against the company on the other side of that too, when they've come down on someone & accused them of things I know not to be true. It's none of my business but I'll tell them they're wrong & prove it where I can. So I suppose I don't like them having the total wrong picture of someone. I don't like someone being made out to be a God when they're not & I don't like someone being crucified when they've done nothing wrong because neither is fair (yes yes, life isn't fair).

    I'd let this go.
    Maybe focus on what you can do to be the one who can do no wrong 
    Thanks for the response.

    I'm probably going to go down this road (the first part of your post).

    As for the second part, those days are long gone & that's a whole other story.
  • Marcon
    Marcon Posts: 9,888
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    If you look at the amount of time and words you've spent, I'd say 'huge issue' is a reasonable conclusion...
    Googling on your question might have been both quicker and easier, if you're only after simple facts rather than opinions!  
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