Flooring issue, shop won't refund

Chris4

I bought flooring in-store from a large flooring store, and also 4mm underlay they recommended. Delivery was booked for a couple weeks. Upon shopping around a bit, realised their underlay was very expensive and got that refunded. Bought my own underlay, 5mm.

Having fitted the flooring and my own underlay, there is an issue with the flooring creaking. The shop advises that we have the wrong underlay, as the manufacturer recommends 3mm or less.

My argument is they previously sold me 4mm underlay, so I don't see how it's my fault if their staff didn't even know. Also, the recommendation is on their website and I bought in-store.

We now have to lift all the floorboards in two rooms (high risk of them breaking apparently) and either replace the underlay and re-fit the boards, or glue the flooring down as we did in the small hallway after realising the issue (they're supposed to just click into place).

They also mentioned the flooring has been discontinued, and then in a subsequent email suddenly said that was an error and they have loads in stock, meanwhile another supplier confirmed it has been discontinued, making me think maybe there's a manufacturing issue.

A family member who installed the flooring advised there's a small gap between the boards causing the creaking, though they might not be expert enough to know the specific cause (i.e. if it's the underlay or an issue with the flooring).

Side issue just to note: Our flooring is currently incomplete due to high wastage / poorly advised coverage and lack of availability of this potentially discontinued flooring. We bought two boxes off an eBay seller who are now sold out, and we need one more, and this shop charge a ridiculous amount for postage for the one more box we need (or maybe more if they break when lifting up). 

They offered a small compensation, but I wanted to push for something more as we're in a real predicament here. As this isn't a straightforward situation, I'd be grateful if anyone has experience or knowledge of my consumer rights here please.

Many thanks,
Chris

ArbitraryRandom

Standard questions: When did you buy it? How did you pay? 


Honestly though, I can't currently see how you'd have any rights around the underlay being wrong as you went out and bought your own underlay from a different retailer after 'independent research'... if you had used their recommended product then you might have had a case. 

If I'm understanding correctly, you think the flooring might be faulty, but they're claiming an installation problem, so it's on you to 'prove' fault is the flooring (not the underlay, or the surface not being levelled properly, or you not giving the floor time to adjust to the humidity before install... etc the 1001 reasons boards creak) by getting an independent report by a professional installer (if that supports your claim then you can seek the cost of the report back from them). 

I might suggest trying for their goodwill gesture to be upped to cover the cost of the delivery of the extra boards you need (and buying c.10% more than you think you need if you've had problems with wastage)

Ayr_Rage

For an in-store purchase you have no right to a refund for change of mind.

They would have been obliged to refund you the cost of the underlay if you had pointed out to them it was over the recommended depth according to their own website, so although you got a refund based on your view it was overpriced, some smart employee may have noticed the error, bit their lip and agreed to the refund on your terms.

As you have now laid the flooring on underlay that is 66% deeper than recommended you'll need an expert to determine if the flooring actually faulty.

On what basis have the company offered compensation?

That could be a critical factor going forward.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

What type of floor is it OP?

Are you sure the base the flooring was laid on was level?

If I’m reading correctly a family member fitted the floor, why are there gaps and if they are causing the creaking what does that have to do with the underlay?

With consumer rights you have purchased the underlay and then self fitted (via family member), whilst any issue raised with the goods within 6 months is for the retailer to prove otherwise, I would suggest finding the cause of the problem if the main goal is a floor that doesn’t creak and (sorry to say) there’s a good chance it’s not the flooring itself

Keep_pedalling

I think you are on a hiding to nothing here. There are 3 potential issues poor quality flooring, wrong type of underlay used and poor installation. It could be a combination of all three, and I would be highly suspect of the third one as  should not be a large quantity of wastage.

Can you provide us with the exact flooring and underlay used and the type of subfloor it was laid on please?

Aylesbury_Duck

I can't see you have a route to anything other than goodwill here.  You chose your own underlay, employed your own (inexperienced?) family fitter and under-ordered.

In an ideal world you'd have paid someone to supply and fit everything, that way, if these problems had materialised, it would be their problem to solve.  By splitting responsibility three ways (flooring, underlay and fitting all supplied separately) it's not clear where the fault lies and so I think you'll find it hard to pin anything on the flooring retailer.  You'd have to show that the flooring was faulty, unless they've already acknowledged that, and that's why they've offered something?

Chris4

Thanks for all your replies. I appreciate all the thoughts and insight. I'll look to get someone in to inspect it and identify the definite cause, so if they advise it is a product issue then I know to go further with it, otherwise I'll take the loss and accept the partial refund and get it sorted myself.

ArbitraryRandom said:

Standard questions: When did you buy it? How did you pay? 

Just over 1 year ago. It took some time to have it installed and then to get a tradie family member in to look at the issue. I realise that timeline doesn't help my case though.

Paid by either debit or credit card, can't see which on the invoice but I can go back through transactions if needed.

Ayr_Rage said:

On what basis have the company offered compensation?

That could be a critical factor going forward.

They didn't really say what basis the compensation was for. They declined to say it was a product issue, and said "As for compensation I can offer a partial refund of £70".

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

What type of floor is it OP?

Are you sure the base the flooring was laid on was level?

If I’m reading correctly a family member fitted the floor, why are there gaps and if they are causing the creaking what does that have to do with the underlay?

With consumer rights you have purchased the underlay and then self fitted (via family member), whilst any issue raised with the goods within 6 months is for the retailer to prove otherwise, I would suggest finding the cause of the problem if the main goal is a floor that doesn’t creak and (sorry to say) there’s a good chance it’s not the flooring itself

It's herringbone oak laminate flooring.

I don't know if my family member checked if the base was completely level, but I can ask.

My family member said gaps are causing the floor to move, but I don't know much else unfortunately. I'm assuming either the gaps are caused by faulty flooring or there's gaps because the thick underlay is causing them to move around.

Sounds like I'll need to get an expert to independently check it out.

Keep_pedalling said:

I think you are on a hiding to nothing here. There are 3 potential issues poor quality flooring, wrong type of underlay used and poor installation. It could be a combination of all three, and I would be highly suspect of the third one as  should not be a large quantity of wastage.

Can you provide us with the exact flooring and underlay used and the type of subfloor it was laid on please?

Flooring: https://www.flooringsuperstore.com/herringbone-elegant-oak-laminate-flooring.html

I believe the subfloor is chipboard.

Aylesbury_Duck said:

You'd have to show that the flooring was faulty, unless they've already acknowledged that, and that's why they've offered something?

They haven't acknowledged it. I was trying to push them to admit it as that seemed a viable option, particularly given it's discontinued and then they said it wasn't (seemed fishy). So it's probably a gesture of goodwill, or otherwise they could be denying a known manufacturing issue and trying to get me to accept a partial refund rather than needing to offer a full refund.

Emmia

Chris4 said:

Thanks for all your replies. I appreciate all the thoughts and insight. I'll look to get someone in to inspect it and identify the definite cause, so if they advise it is a product issue then I know to go further with it, otherwise I'll take the loss and accept the partial refund and get it sorted myself.

ArbitraryRandom said:

Standard questions: When did you buy it? How did you pay? 

Just over 1 year ago. It took some time to have it installed and then to get a tradie family member in to look at the issue. I realise that timeline doesn't help my case though.

Paid by either debit or credit card, can't see which on the invoice but I can go back through transactions if needed.

Ayr_Rage said:

On what basis have the company offered compensation?

That could be a critical factor going forward.

They didn't really say what basis the compensation was for. They declined to say it was a product issue, and said "As for compensation I can offer a partial refund of £70".

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

What type of floor is it OP?

Are you sure the base the flooring was laid on was level?

If I’m reading correctly a family member fitted the floor, why are there gaps and if they are causing the creaking what does that have to do with the underlay?

With consumer rights you have purchased the underlay and then self fitted (via family member), whilst any issue raised with the goods within 6 months is for the retailer to prove otherwise, I would suggest finding the cause of the problem if the main goal is a floor that doesn’t creak and (sorry to say) there’s a good chance it’s not the flooring itself

It's herringbone oak laminate flooring.

I don't know if my family member checked if the base was completely level, but I can ask.

My family member said gaps are causing the floor to move, but I don't know much else unfortunately. I'm assuming either the gaps are caused by faulty flooring or there's gaps because the thick underlay is causing them to move around.

Sounds like I'll need to get an expert to independently check it out.

Keep_pedalling said:

I think you are on a hiding to nothing here. There are 3 potential issues poor quality flooring, wrong type of underlay used and poor installation. It could be a combination of all three, and I would be highly suspect of the third one as  should not be a large quantity of wastage.

Can you provide us with the exact flooring and underlay used and the type of subfloor it was laid on please?

Flooring: https://www.flooringsuperstore.com/herringbone-elegant-oak-laminate-flooring.html

I believe the subfloor is chipboard.

Aylesbury_Duck said:

You'd have to show that the flooring was faulty, unless they've already acknowledged that, and that's why they've offered something?

They haven't acknowledged it. I was trying to push them to admit it as that seemed a viable option, particularly given it's discontinued and then they said it wasn't (seemed fishy). So it's probably a gesture of goodwill, or otherwise they could be denying a known manufacturing issue and trying to get me to accept a partial refund rather than needing to offer a full refund.

The description of the product you've linked to mentions using a 1mm - 3mm thick underlay, so your self-sourced thicker underlay may be part of the issue.

lincroft1710

Buying the floor over a year ago muddies the waters even more and also that you purchased extra flooring from another supplier. If they offered a "small compensation", I'd bite their hand off, there are so many aspects of this scenario which point to the problem not being the fault of the floor store.

ArbitraryRandom

Chris4 said:

I don't know if my family member checked if the base was completely level, but I can ask.

FYI, the most common cause of creaking with DIY flooring is not properly preparing the sub-floor - the underlay doesn't fix dips and bumps. 

Looking at the site, £70 would pay for one pack of flooring and delivery... which seems quite reasonable to me given there's no evidence the company are at fault. 

Keep_pedalling

The data sheet does say 1-3mm underlay which should be fine for a chipboard subfloor. 5mm is going to cause more flex so a likely cause of the creaking. 

I see where some of the wastage has come from, the herring bone design is going to have a lot more than a straight plank type layout.