A fairly unique parking fine situation, all assistance appreciated

snipsnipcrab

Hey guys, newbie here. I appear to be in a bit of a pickle, having read all the blurb available I can find the last two days as well as speaking to popla and citizens advice bureau I find I still need some advice. 

The situation I will outline as follows: 

July 1st I buy 1 hours parking in private car park owned by a BPA approved parking company, my actual stay turned out to be 1 hour 10 mins 40 seconds according to the camera later.

July 30th my CAR LEASE COMPANY sends me an email with a parking fine notice with intent to fine for insufficient paid time, the letter attached has an issue date of 13th JULY. They inform me in the email they have passed on my details as driver and to expect a new notice with a fresh issue date on from the parking company.

Late August I finally receive a notice addressed to me from the parking company which so happens to have the identical date for the issue date the 13th of JULY

Given they reissued the notice with the original issue date sent to my leasing company, it ended up being 6 weeks after 13th JULY that I receive the notice personally. This left me with no opportunity to pay £50 in 14 days or appeal within 28 days if I chose too. 

Not knowing what to do I sent them an appeal anyways explaining what had happened, said I was happy to pay the original £50 and they should re-issue me a fresh letter so I have the opportunity to do so.. 8 weeks go by I get no reply.

14th November, debt collectors letter, you owe us £170, pay us or they will start legal proceedings.

I haven't spoken to the debt collectors yet as would like some thoughts first. I'll outline for you my thoughts so let me know what you think...

I think they parking company are in breach of their own contract terms by sending out a second letter once they had my details with the same issue date.

I surely would hope if they took me to small claims court that I could bring both the letter I have and the email and that sure be enough to reduce it to £50.

I really appreciate any feedback you guys have. POPLA cant help me sadly as the parking company just ignored my appeal so don't have a claims number to go that route.

Cheers

KeithP

Hello and welcome.

Which parking company?

Have you seen that part of the opening post of the NEWBIES thread following the heading...

There you will see that the parking company has failed. They always fail to send the required documentation with their Notice to Hirer.

Also, how on earth can the leasing company name you as the driver? Were they in the car?
They can only name you as the hirer. They have no idea who was driving at any one time.

And just for completeness, there is nothing unique about your situation... never mind the phrase 'fairly unique'.  

Fruitcake

Either something is unique, or it is not. Yours is not. It is all covered in the NEWBIES sticky Announcement, but sadly you are far too late to use most of it now which is a shame because you could have so easily beaten this at the PoPLA stage.

It is not a fine.

It is unlikely that the PPC owned the car park.

What is the name of the PPC?

Where did the alleged event occur? It may have cropped up here before.

What happened when you complained to the landowner and your MP? That is Plan A, and it is never too late to do so.

CAB know nothing about private parking issues and are renowned for giving bad advice on that subject.

Debt collectors are powerless and can safely be ignored.

Never, ever 'phone a parking company, nor any of their agents.

The lease company cannot have passed the driver's details to the PPC unless a member of the lease company was present at the time of the alleged event, or you told them who was driving.
The only details the lease company have is that of the hirer/lessee.

You are now in ignore mode unless you get a landowner cancellation or a Letter before/of Claim, or a court claim

Coupon-mad

I haven't spoken to the debt collectors yet.

And you are never going to!  Course not.  And certainly stop talking to the clueless CAB.  And stop offering to pay.

You could complain to the BPA if you are saying that the NTH had a provably false date in it.  They are pretty useless with some complaints though, and it sounds like you've already admitted to driving (oh dear) which has thrown away your 100% winning point that would have won this at POPLA, even if you got a late POPLA Code after your BPA Complaint.

NOT THAT YOU PAY.

You aren't paying.

It is considered sharp practice by right-thinking people, that the BPA changed their Code of Practice in 2020 to say that no 'consideration period' (time to drive in, drive round to find a space, park, get belongings and kids or bags out, go and read the signs and then take the time needed to pay) is allowed when people elect to stay!

In their cloud cuckoo land, unbeknown to drivers, the time on the paid-for ticket is a lie and somehow you are meant to guess when you drove past the ANPR camera at the entrance, and count your hour from then.

But the ticket or app says otherwise!  Come in BPA, CLEARLY that clause is an unfair term. Illegal.  CRA 2015 applies.  That change to your CoP was an embarrassment, BPA, and if you are reading this you should be ashamed.

That was an appallingly disingenuous change to the already weak 'rules' and is being reversed by the Government in the incoming statutory Code in 2024, as this rogue industry is finally brought to book. 

Which PPC?

snipsnipcrab

Thanks for the rapid responses everyone,

@Fruitcake Regarding POPLA at no point could I of possibly won this through them, the parking company didn't respond to my appeal so I don't have a code to take that route. I acted as soon as I received the letter by starting an appeal which was ignored.

The company is called SMART PARKING.
The land is owned by a company called enterprise parking solutions (now part of SMART parking) according to the google link. St Johns Road Car Park (EAST) in Birmingham. The contact details on their site is the SMART PARKING sales email.


I did read the newbie thread yes, regarding the hiring and leasing section I guess what I mean't from unique was from other peoples cases I've read I haven't come across anyone that received the personalised notice with the same date as one to the lease company. Thereby removing any chance to pay on time or deny it through appeal.

You guys are correct the lease company have named me as the "HIRER" that is correct.

So am I correct the play to ignore the debt collectors and just write a letter to my MP with all the details complaining about how SMART PARKING are in error with issue dates and how they have acted?

I can send a letter of complaint to the BPA also happy to do that, the only stage/place I've admitted that I did it was the appeal I made to SMART PARKING but they never responded to it, probably didnt even read it as was after the 28 days.

How winnable is if they did summon me to court when I have the 2 letters same date as evidence? 

Coupon-mad

There is no 'summons'. This isn't a fine!

There might be a court claim but unlikely from Smart. Ignore debt letters.

It's a real shame you admitted to driving  which threw away the 100% POPLA win.  Even if the BPA get you a POPLA Code, sadly your first appeal binned the main winning point (non-PoFA, no hirer liability).

But with Smart there are other winning POPLA points.  You got lucky with a crap company!

Try and get a POPLA Code by complaining to the BPA, like I said. Your MP also contacting the BPA and Smart (to push them on your behalf) will help.

snipsnipcrab

Apologies @Coupon-mad for my incorrect legal wording but yes I'm with you.

Yeah I mean I didn't realise the no hirer liability was a thing, but should I get a ticket again will remember that one thank you.

Glad to hear they are a shambles that company, I'll write a letter to my MP and contact the BPA as you suggest and go from there. 

Thank you 

Le_Kirk

Fruitcake said:

Either something is unique, or it is not. 

You beat me to it!  Trying to qualify unique, an absolute term,  is one of my pet grammar hates, along with incorrect use of literally and starting a sentence with "so".  Does not detract from the advice given to the OP though.

snipsnipcrab

Le_Kirk said:

Fruitcake said:

Either something is unique, or it is not. 

You beat me to it!  Trying to qualify unique, an absolute term,  is one of my pet grammar hates, along with incorrect use of literally and starting a sentence with "so".  Does not detract from the advice given to the OP though.

I write in a social format like we are having a conversation as its forum, so I like to come across friendly. Doesn't say anywhere that we must all talk like its a formal English exam.  

UncleThomasCobley

snipsnipcrab said:

I write in a social format like we are having a conversation as its forum, so I like to come across friendly. Doesn't say anywhere that we must all talk like it's a formal English exam.  

Try doing that in a legal correspondence capacity and see where that gets you. It would be worth looking up FUBAR to get an idea. Correct grammar is vitally important if you are dealing with legal issues:

snipsnipcrab said:
Regarding POPLA at no point could I of possibly won this through them...