Electric only new build flat

snowqueen555

Hi

I have my eye on a new build development 1-2 bed flats and the flats are quite cheap in comparison to other new builds. I'm wondering if having all electric heating/water is a deal breaker. I am pretty frugal when it comes to energy usage but wondering if in the long run I am shooting myself in the foot by buying a cheaper flat upfront but paying more in the long run on bills. They are supposed to be EPC C when completed. I have been looking for over a year.

I know electric is currently 3-4 times the cost of gas.

I suppose offsetting that is maintenance is a lot cheaper with no yearly checks and I know some people say new builds have much better insulation and use the heating very rarely etc.

Gerry1

What type of electric room and water heating does it have?  If it's cheap that probably applies to the heating: lowest capital costs for them, highest running costs for you.  It could well be a deal breaker.

Don't forget that when the time comes, a poor heating system will make the flat harder to sell and lower the price that's achieved.

Qyburn

EPC C isn't that good for a new build. 

markin

A 'C' for a new build is rather poor in my book, And 1 beds can be hard to sell on. You will probably find most developers avoid gas, and even when they spec night storage heaters they often cheap out and fit panel heaters, as they always planed too in reality.

snowqueen555

markin said:

A 'C' for a new build is rather poor in my book, And 1 beds can be hard to sell on. You will probably find most developers avoid gas, and even when they spec night storage heaters they often cheap out and fit panel heaters, as they always planed too in reality.

I had always assumed that is because electric panel heaters can only get so high a rating, I might be wrong.

QrizB

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that developers are still building electric-only flats without heat pumps.

snowqueen555 said:

I'm wondering if having all electric heating/water is a deal breaker.

Let's say the flat needs 5000kWh of heat a year. At current SVT prices that's £1350 a year.From gas it would be more like £350 a year, or £500 a year from a heat pump.

So, the flat will cost you ~£1000 a year more in energy than it otherwise would.

How much extra mortgage could you get for £1000 a year, and would that buy you a similar flat with gas or a heat pump?

Gerry1

snowqueen555 said:

markin said:

A 'C' for a new build is rather poor in my book, And 1 beds can be hard to sell on. You will probably find most developers avoid gas, and even when they spec night storage heaters they often cheap out and fit panel heaters, as they always planned to in reality.

I had always assumed that is because electric panel heaters can only get so high a rating, I might be wrong.

No, as previously stated they won't bother with Dimplex Quantums at £1000 or so each, they're more likely to settle for panel heaters at under £80.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/wall-mounted-panel-heater-2000w/5907p

You'll be the one left with the thousand pounder annual energy bills... 😱

markin

Better insulation, windows, ventilation system can make a home EPC A-B despite the electric heating as the annual heating demand would be far lower.

itsthelittlethings

My electric only studio flat electric bill is £950 a year. I heat it comfortably. I haven’t found electric to be a killer compared to previous shared properties that had gas. Obviously it’s more because it’s just me.

Gerry1

Ef79 said:

My electric only studio flat electric bill is £950 a year. I heat it comfortably. I haven’t found electric to be a killer compared to previous shared properties that had gas.

Panel heaters or HHR NSHs?  Are there flats above, below, on each side and behind you?  Ground floor or rooftop?  WFH and at home all weekend, or commuting and clubbing?  Sunny south facing valley or exposed hilltop facing Siberia?  Shetland or Scilly Isles?  Single glazed draughty old sash windows or Passivhaus standards?

Without this sort of info it's impossible to draw any meaningful conclusions.

Scot_39

QrizB said:

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that developers are still building electric-only flats without heat pumps.

snowqueen555 said:

I'm wondering if having all electric heating/water is a deal breaker.

Let's say the flat needs 5000kWh of heat a year. At current SVT prices that's £1350 a year.From gas it would be more like £350 a year, or £500 a year from a heat pump.

So, the flat will cost you ~£1000 a year more in energy than it otherwise would.

How much extra mortgage could you get for £1000 a year, and would that buy you a similar flat with gas or a heat pump?

Think about that  - an individual ashp costs about 7.5k - judging by prices ofgem and bg were quoting plus say with radiators and pipe work for air to wet - 10k.  And that doesnt address potential structural vibration and noise issues - or space issues.  So even those on ground floor struggle getting freeholders permission.

 Even say air to air through wall per room at c1.5k per room in a 2 bed flat - coming in at min of 6k plus a few panel heaters etc - and some of those apparently don't work unless rooms already het to mid single figures according to 1 post here (admittedly that was in a converted garage space used as a gym iirc)

Who do you think is going to pay that 6-10k ?

Plus interest these days over for many young folk 30-35 years ?

Whilst a cheap 1 bed flat around here in not best of areas starts at sub 100k, 110k+ common a 2 bed start sub c130k, 135k plus more common - despite recent drops.  And even young couples at or near min wage - or singles at uk £35k aver wage - often still struggle to secure those longer term  mortgages for  them.

Adding idealistic green heating costs would just make them even less affordable upfront.

 
And given Ofgem tdcv for type 2 metering (mainly e7)  - medium sized - just dropped to 3900kWh per annum - unlikely that many smaller efficient households - will be using 5000kWh just on heating or heating and hot water. 

Edit : Last years my total down a couple 100kWh cf some years in past - c3400kWh according to last months bill estimate - heat probably just under but closer to 2500kWh.

Half that 5000kWh - heating - e10 off peak mainly - electric (cold fed) shower, cooker (mainly microwave and air fryer now not big oven) and hw immersion - e10 off peak - heating combined. 

Yes id love to save a bit of that still c£400 at todays sr after gas SC (less if have gch serviced or covered by maintenance call out plan too) by having gas or solar panels to reduce it etc - but both come with significant upfront costs.

I even did the maths on upgrading nsh and switching to e7 c2020 - just on energy costs - over a 20 year pay back at my low use - ignoring interest on capital used - which added more years even at emergency rates.

My heating is less than my council tax bill on average.

And for many of us - significantly lower than their rent or mortgage payments.

Yes it's better to get heating costs as low as possible - but it needs to always be framed in context.

If doing so not balanced - if you simply cannot afford the capital investment or the credit ( or banks no longer willing to lend) at now more normal rates - running costs are not the only factor.

Modern flats tend to be relatively small areas and well insulated - choose wisely - so sun exposed living areas - not n/w cold wind exposed - and pick a middle floor (if heating your main concern rather than accessibility - perhaps even private garden space - on ground floor - or not worried about noise from above etc etc ) - and heat losses to above and below - even potential heat gains from below - can lead to fairly minimal heating costs.