Electric only new build flats

Murphybear

I live in sheltered over 60s housing.  There are 32 1 bedroomed flats and 1 house (which I have).  They were built to a high standard in the 80s by the British Legion.  We’ve had old fashioned storage heaters until earlier this Spring when they were all replaced with state of the art Quantum storage heaters.  They are much more controllable annd energy efficient and most of the residents have reported that their heating bills over the last couple of months have dropped a lot.  

snowqueen555

MattMattMattUK said:

I am in a new(ish) build flat, built four years ago, EPC C, electric only, 110 sq. meters, middle floor, others on two sides (corner). I live alone, shower an average of nine times a week, dishwasher on twice a week, washing machine runs on average 5-6 times a week and have quite a bit of tech (smart home) as well as a high end gaming PC etc. I historically used around 3,700, this year I am actually more likely to use closer to 3,100 as I am in the office more. I do not tend to have the heating on much, I have not had it on yet this winter, not a huge amount last winter. Now that could well change if we have a really cold winter and I would then expect my costs to increase around £50 a month for really cold months, but currently my average is around £85-90 a month. 

That sounds like an exception to the norm, very good, but then again I think having he middle floor flat really makes a huge difference. Would you say you would be happy long term with electric heating?

I suppose I have completely overlooked hot water as well, I think running an immersion heater or whatever modern electric systems these days must be really expensive as they are just large kettles.

Herzlos said:

What's providing the heat? Assuming it's a heat pump then it should be pretty efficient and potentially cheaper than gas to run.

Heat pumps aren't a legal requirement for new builds until 2025 though, so it could be an electric heater which will cost a lot to run.

Panel heaters

Mutton_Geoff

Herzlos said:

What's providing the heat? Assuming it's a heat pump then it should be pretty efficient and potentially cheaper than gas to run.

I'm not convinced it will be cheaper. Electricity generally costs 4x that of gas per kwhr. Unless your heat pump had an actual COP above 4, then it won't be cheaper. That's before taking into account the much larger costs of buying & installing a heat pump.

Astounded by some of the consumption figures here. 6 MWhr a year for a one bed flat? I live in a 4 bed open plan house and "only" use 12 MWhr pa. Insulation is the key to keeping that hard earned energy in.

Albermarle

I'm not convinced it will be cheaper. Electricity generally costs 4x that of gas per kwhr. Unless your heat pump had an actual COP above 4, then it won't be cheaper.

That is correct, a heat pump is more energy efficient, but as it uses electricity which is more expensive, there are no real cost savings.

Mutton_Geoff

Albermarle said:

I'm not convinced it will be cheaper. Electricity generally costs 4x that of gas per kwhr. Unless your heat pump had an actual COP above 4, then it won't be cheaper.

That is correct, a heat pump is more energy efficient, but as it uses electricity which is more expensive, there are no real cost savings.

I thought that batteries and solar might be the answer but someone suggested running the ASHP from a battery that was charged with cheap rate electricity and forget the panels. The Tesla battery costs about £10k for 13.5Kwhr and assuming I could use it once a day for my ASHP consuming 3.5KW, I'd get less than 4 hours "saving" per day.

With cheap elec at 10p and full rate 29p, even using the full capacity every single day, it would take 12 years to pay back. I don't think the panels would ever pay for themselves with typical UK sunshine levels so I don't think they would help the equation.

A local "green energy" company gave me an illustration of 7 year payback for a £25k install. Then I saw they had doubled my consumption and priced electricity at 60p to get these figures. Is this the next scandal?

Jonboy_1984

Mutton_Geoff said:

Herzlos said:

What's providing the heat? Assuming it's a heat pump then it should be pretty efficient and potentially cheaper than gas to run.

I'm not convinced it will be cheaper. Electricity generally costs 4x that of gas per kwhr. Unless your heat pump had an actual COP above 4, then it won't be cheaper. That's before taking into account the much larger costs of buying & installing a heat pump.

Astounded by some of the consumption figures here. 6 MWhr a year for a one bed flat? I live in a 4 bed open plan house and "only" use 12 MWhr pa. Insulation is the key to keeping that hard earned energy in.

Part of that is areas such as clothes drying, no access to a washing line & not much space for clothes horses (and potentially for damp issues due to smaller total airspace) drives reliance on tumble dryers etc. Particularly if you work in a manual role.

My figures were also based on permanent wfh. Our usage was still 15% below the epc suggested figures... 

EssexHebridean

Panel heaters? I would suggest you run for the hills….or rather, for a different property with a far more sensible heating system…or indeed, a heating “system” of any description! 

MultiFuelBurner

ProDave said:

BeerSavesMoney said:

New build flats are usually well insulated, in the one bed we rented previously our annual usage was around 5500 kWhs. 

That is shocking.  That is as much as I use in my self built (almost passive house) 3 bedroom detached house.

It is equally shocking that a new builds now are being built to such a poor standard that they only get an EPC C.  again mine has EPC A

The mass market builders still need a kick up the aris and be told to build properly.  If I can do it as a non professional self builder they really have no excuse not to build better.

I would suggest if you use 5500kwh in a self built almost passive house then it's not as efficient as your EPC grade A suggests.

That is absolutely shocking that amount of energy use for a passive house.

Albermarle

Mutton_Geoff said:

Albermarle said:

I'm not convinced it will be cheaper. Electricity generally costs 4x that of gas per kwhr. Unless your heat pump had an actual COP above 4, then it won't be cheaper.

That is correct, a heat pump is more energy efficient, but as it uses electricity which is more expensive, there are no real cost savings.

I thought that batteries and solar might be the answer but someone suggested running the ASHP from a battery that was charged with cheap rate electricity and forget the panels. The Tesla battery costs about £10k for 13.5Kwhr and assuming I could use it once a day for my ASHP consuming 3.5KW, I'd get less than 4 hours "saving" per day.

With cheap elec at 10p and full rate 29p, even using the full capacity every single day, it would take 12 years to pay back. I don't think the panels would ever pay for themselves with typical UK sunshine levels so I don't think they would help the equation.

A local "green energy" company gave me an illustration of 7 year payback for a £25k install. Then I saw they had doubled my consumption and priced electricity at 60p to get these figures. Is this the next scandal?

I think the long term idea is that electricity prices will decouple from gas prices and become cheaper.
Especially as  more and more electricity will be coming from renewable sources.
So jam tomorrow rather than today .

silvercar

There are some new blocks where the flats are electric only, but the central heating is from a communal boiler. Billed according to usage but not electric heating as such. This seems to be the way forward as it saves on individual boilers heating up and maintenance costs.