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Neighbour Dispute Over A Garage

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Comments

  • Gavin83
    Gavin83 Posts: 8,757 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    I'm a little confused as to what the problem is as people seem to be answering based on different issues. Are you saying you're happy to give up the space but you want the actual garage itself (which you paid for) but the new owner states the garage belongs to him, not just the space?

    He has no right over the garage itself if you paid for it. Whether he was under the belief it was included in the sale or not is not your problem. However I don't understand the debate nor the threats. Just take your car out, take down the garage and leave it be. He clearly isn't willing to buy it.

    Certainly a good way to bond with your new neighbours anyway!
  • loubel
    loubel Posts: 974 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Name Dropper
    It all sounds a bit of a mess. I suspect previous owner didn't disclose your agreement to the new owner, hence his surprise that you intend to remove the garage. It's not clear what sort of agreement you had with the previous owner but he should have brought it to an end before selling and made clear that you needed to remove the garage and your car by completion. If the new owner wanted the garage he could have negotiated for the previous owner to buy it from you first. 


  • theoretica
    theoretica Posts: 12,685 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    Seems like your rental of the land has ended - so finding somewhere else for your car is necessary - and would mean it isn't in the building to be damaged if he does knock it down.
    He has declined your offer to purchase the building, so if you want it then go ahead and take it, don't see how he can stop it.  What I think would be problematic is leaving it sitting there to take down later at a time of your convenience.  You don't want to be the one knocking down a building with his stuff in.
    But a banker, engaged at enormous expense,
    Had the whole of their cash in his care.
    Lewis Carroll
  • user1977
    user1977 Posts: 16,665 Forumite
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    I don’t think anyone can give useful advice without knowing what this “internet printed form” actually says.

    If it’s a lease then the change of landlord doesn’t in itself affect the tenant’s rights. 
  • Jono111
    Jono111 Posts: 148 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 9 November 2023 at 7:41PM
    Ignore. Didn't read the ops post correctly 
  • Herzlos
    Herzlos Posts: 15,371 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Remove your stuff from the garage and lock it up. That way at least you can't lose any stuff should it go further pear shaped.

    Then you need to decide whether you want to spend time/money getting the garage dismantled and moved or whether to just write it off.
  • Titus_Wadd
    Titus_Wadd Posts: 510 Forumite
    Fifth Anniversary 500 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 9 November 2023 at 8:59PM
    I'm not a lawyer but doesn't a change of ownership of land require a deed to make the arrangement run with the land ie. binding on subsequent owners?  
    Doesn't the transfer of land as recorded by the land registry include stuff that's built on the land or attached to it?  Like a garage?  The new owner isn't party to any past arrangement; I think you need legal advice...hopefully someone will post a proper explanation soon. 

    I agree the garage contents belong to you..and the new neighbour can't keep them or damage them.
  • Bigphil1474
    Bigphil1474 Posts: 3,058 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    From the new owners perspective - I've bought a house with a garage but the neighbour is telling me they own the garage that is on my land? Whaaat? As the previous owner died, they probably won't have been able to clarify the situation with the new owner. Whether your contract will stand up to a legal test will depend on what it says. If it was me, I'd either tell the new neighbour you will remove the garage, or just give it to them. What are you gonna do with the garage anyway?
  • user1977
    user1977 Posts: 16,665 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Sixth Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    I'm not a lawyer but doesn't a change of ownership of land require a deed to make the arrangement run with the land ie. binding on subsequent owners?  
    Doesn't the transfer of land as recorded by the land registry include stuff that's built on the land or attached to it?  Like a garage?  The new owner isn't party to any past arrangement; I think you need legal advice...hopefully someone will post a proper explanation soon. 
    No, like I said above, leases run with the land. And title to land includes the buildings attached to it.

    Maybe the OP can clarify whether this “internet printed form” (or any subsequent agreement) deals with improvements made by the tenant (if they are a tenant)?
  • ThisIsWeird
    ThisIsWeird Posts: 7,560 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited 10 November 2023 at 9:56AM
    janeybh said:
    Hi, I rented a garage space in a block from a neighbour and I had a sectional garage built (I have the receipts) We had an internet printed form that we both signed, all was good.
    Unfortunately the neighbour sold up and moved away. The new owner now wants  his space back but also wants the garage that I paid for. I said he could purchase it from me for half the original cost or I could take the garage down. He states the garage is his because it’s on his space. Things are getting fraught and he threatened to knock the garage down with my car in it. 
    Where do I stand ?
    Any advice would be appreciated.
    Can you evidence his threat to knock the garage down with your car inside it? Any witnesses? If not, write down what was said as verbatim as possible, and have your phone set to surreptitiously record in future.
    I fear, tho', he may legally be in the right, since you didn't take steps to clarify matters when the house sold. I have to ask - why didn't you? And, what does this 'contract' say - does it include that you continue to own the garage, and may remove it at any point you wish? If so, that could be useful, and this resulting unpleasant issue is actually one for the old and new neighbours to resolve - clearly the old didn't fill out their SIP properly!
    From reading similarish threads, tho', it seems to be the case that anything that is 'affixed' to the land is included as part of it as far as ownership is concerned. I certainly understand that is the presumption when you buy a property; anything fixed to the ground within the boundaries is part of that property. He bought his parking space on which was built a garage, and he now owns the garage which is clearly affixed to it. An item placed on the land is not the same - vehicles, a timber shed, etc. Think it through - when you buy a new home, you don't say, "Hmm, nice garage with this house - I wonder who it belongs to?"

    What's the full story here, Janey? Why didn't you sort this out as soon as you knew the house was up for sale, as you should have? Did you expect the new neighbour to continue the old arrangement? If so, that was naive at best. What did you say to the new neighbour about this garage with your car inside it, and in what manner?
    From what I understand - but I am no legal expert - the situation would appear to be;
    1) You almost certainly have no legal right to continue keeping your car there. Challenging this will almost certainly be both costly and futile.
    2) You very likely have no legal right to the garage either. However, the circumstances - your clear written agreement with the previous owner - could 'grey' the matter to some degree depending on what is included in the wording, but almost certainly a 'win' would go no further than your possible right to remove the garage. Can you evidence that it was never the intention that the ex-neighbour would own the garage you built there, and that you could remove it at any time?
    3) Ultimately I suspect the neighbour can take action to remove your car, and forbid you from removing the garage - a simple injunction would do this, and woe betide you if you breach it.
    4) Until your neighbour takes proper legal action, then he has an obligation to not cause damage to your car. But that situation isn't going to last for long.
    So, what to do? 
    One option is to make it a fait accompli; dismantle and remove the garage, ideally when the neighbour is at work... He'd be nuts to try and take retrospective action, especially after his threats to demolish the garage with your car inside it*. Your reason for taking this f-a action would be that you were actively investigating your legal rights, and engaging with the neighbour in reasoned terms; you would, of course, have conformed with the correct legal outcome, but this was currently not clear. 'Unfortunately', the neighbour then threatened to demolish the garage with your car inside it, so you took quick action, both to protect your property, and to prevent a titfortat action - him suing for ownership, you ditto for criminal damage. You had strong reason to suspect that this neighbour was simply going to act in a criminal manner.
    Or, you keep lowering your asking price until he might go 'ok'. Your lever is that you 'believe' it's not a simple case, and if he pursues this legally, it'll cost him. If he takes direct action, it'll be criminal damage - and you have already recorded that he has threatened this.
    Or, take your car and leave.
    Or, take legal action. I suspect your chance of success is less than zero.

    *And, if he did take action, what would his claim be for? What value? After all, he did say he'd knock it down, so it can't be worth much to him.




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