Section 75 credit card claim

Kor65

Section 75 Credit Card

We had a terrible experience of holiday this year with James Villa (who have stopped trading now  ) we tried every avenue ABTA Charge back debit card  citizens advice , last chance was section 75

The credit card company were appalled with the photographs and videos that we sent them and said they would definitely be a case after a couple of weeks they asked if we left the property whilst in Cyprus. Because we didn’t, they said they wouldn’t be able to follow the claim through they advised me that we should have moved out find alternative accommodation and then raise the case for that because we stopped there we had use of the services. It’s a Tick Box with Visa.  

I explained that we were initially told they would move us out and after five days, they eventually said that there was no alternative properties  (played  us  for time,) and that we would have to look at compensation When we return.   After that point, we did look at trying to find alternative accommodation  and even flights back. However the only accommodation we could find that peak season was several thousand pounds and flights were the same. We really didn’t have that type of available cash or credit limit to do this. And there would be no guarantee that you would pay out when we return we were already nearly £8000 for the holiday.  There are four of us, two adults and two teenagers, so any pricing would be for adults. 

The reason why I’m posting this  so that people can be aware of how section 75 works. I can imagine that some people will put in a fraudulent claim  and  by not moving out would be the line in the sand for the credit card company.  The credit card company told us that with  all the information we had supplied the emails photo  et cetera that’s there would have  been a case if we had moved out .

In our situation, if we had known this would  we have we been able to afford to move or fly back it would  have  been putting  us in a financial  nightmare  we were already going through a holiday nightmare  and taking  a chance that they would pay out. 

God Forbid, if there was a next time, I would give  a deadline for the holiday company to find alternative accommodation and then move out  and put a claim in.  I would also make sure that my credit limit was extended for this.  

PS out of the blue  James Villa has contacted us and refunded all the money last month 

DullGreyGuy

Kor65 said:
The reason why I’m posting this  so that people can be aware of how section 75 works. I can imagine that some people will put in a fraudulent claim  and  by not moving out would be the line in the sand for the credit card company.  The credit card company told us that with  all the information we had supplied the emails photo  et cetera that’s there would have  been a case if we had moved out .

Only problem is @kor65 that based on what you say, your credit card put through a chargeback not a S75 claim.

You state they mentioned Visa's rules... visa (and Mastercard/AmEx) only make the rules about Chargebacks. Section 75 is part of the Consumer Credit Act and so the rules are enshrined in statute and nothing to do with card networks.

With most cards, if not all, you raise a "dispute" and it is up to the credit card company if they deal with it as a Chargeback or a S75. For various reasons it is standard practice to deal with it as a chargeback first and only if that's unsuccessful to then consider it under S75, an approach supported by the Ombudsman. 

Once it is a S75 claim they do not have a choice about "not following the claim through", they have a legal obligation to see it through and its purely their decision if to accept or reject the claim given the money is paid out of their own pocket (unlike a chargeback). If you disagree with their decision then you can escalate to the Financial Ombudsman.

Westin

What was the time scale between contacting James Holidays and the time that they gave you a full refund?

Kor65

We did a charge back on a separate bank which was rejected apparently they don’t cover services. 

I then went to my credit card company, a separate company and filled in a section 75 claim form. This was not a chargeback.

As mentioned The credit card company contacted me by  phone and asked me had I moved out of the property and I stated no and they said because of this the claim would be rejected. I did dispute this because of the situation is explained in my initial post. He then went off to speak to a colleague and then came back with the same answer. I explained the situation we were in and why we didn’t move. 

But they still came back with the same answer there was no appealing. This was not a chargeback.

From what you have mentioned, they’ve just rejected it. 

I didn’t pursue this because a couple of hours later bizarrely, James Villa contacted me and apologised and offered a full refund. This was out of the blue. 

Kor65

About two months after James Villa contacted us

eskbanker

Kor65 said:

We did a charge back on a separate bank which was rejected apparently they don’t cover services. 

Sounds like a misunderstanding somewhere along the line then, as the chargeback scheme does cover services as well as goods - which bank was this?  If you paid the total across multiple cards, then chargeback would only recover the losses associated with the one you're claiming against, unlike s75, where a successful claim includes the entire transaction/item cost, regardless of how much was paid on the credit card.  However, chargeback (unlike s75) does depend on the rules of the card schemes, so that could fall foul of what Visa mandates....

Kor65 said:

I then went to my credit card company, a separate company and filled in a section 75 claim form. This was not a chargeback.

As mentioned The credit card company contacted me by  phone and asked me had I moved out of the property and I stated no and they said because of this the claim would be rejected. I did dispute this because of the situation is explained in my initial post. He then went off to speak to a colleague and then came back with the same answer. I explained the situation we were in and why we didn’t move. 

But they still came back with the same answer there was no appealing. This was not a chargeback.

As above, just because you filled in a s75 form doesn't mean that the card company chose not to try chargeback first, so the reference to Visa in your earlier post does suggest that this was what they did.

Kor65 said:

We had a terrible experience of holiday this year with James Villa (who have stopped trading now  ) we tried every avenue ATAD Charge back debit card  citizens advice , last chance was section 75

What's 'ATAD' in this context?


All of the above is moot if you've now been refunded by the merchant though, but may be useful for others....

Kor65

I’m going to contact the Credit Card Company to see if that’s what they actually did as they did not make this clear at all. If that is the case, I will be putting in a complaint as there was nothing mentioned about a chargeback just section 75

Chase bank was  the chargeback  

we didn’t realise that we had paid some of it with the credit card until checking the statements after that so after the chargeback was declined,
we then pursued the credit card 
Chase that the chargeback does not cover a service and stopping at the villa was a service.

I asked James Villa when they contacted me because of the credit card company  contacting  them They had no record of the Credit Card contacting them. I thought this may have prompted them to pay. The credit card company also confirmed that they hadn’t contacted James Villa the case was over three weeks old at that point. 

Kor65

Okay, thanks for all your  advice i’ve just contacted the credit card company I explained the advice I’ve been given I had to ask them several times directly. Was it a chargeback that you were dealing with eventually they confirm this. She asked me how I got my information. I explained about the forum I also explained that because the word Visa was mentioned you had gone down the chargeback route. She went on to explain that if there is a dispute between them and James Villa, they would go to Visa.  I explained that you hadn’t contacted James Villa’s and I had an email confirming that and the recorded telephone calls will also confirm. So it wasn’t relevant and why didn’t they inform me of this and also give me the option to still pursue the section 75. I genuinely feel like they have completely fobbed me off. I also pointed out that we had no initial success with James Villas  they did eventually refund the cost of the Villa, there was a genuine case. Although at the time of the telephone calls, there was no sign of a refund Yet nationWide had palmed me off. 

I’ve been with NationWide for over 30 years after this complaint has gone through, I won’t be.

I initially put the post on to inform people of my experience, so they might have a better idea of how these things go , however, I had no idea I would be finding out what actually happened. Thank you for the advice.

Kor65

Westin said:

What was the time scale between contacting James Holidays and the time that they gave you a full refund?

About two months

DullGreyGuy

Kor65 said:

I initially put the post on to inform people of my experience, so they might have a better idea of how these things go , however, I had no idea I would be finding out what actually happened. Thank you for the advice.

Appreciate the post was well intentioned and didn't mean to put you down but there were a few flags, if you know what you were looking for, that said it was a chargeback.

As mentioned previously the ombudsman does support banks doing a chargeback before a S75 for a few reasons however they do reprimand banks if after the chargeback fails that they don't then consider it under S75. I think there is another angle to your complaint though in that a chargeback only recovers the amount paid by that payment method and presumably in this case the majority was paid on your debit card not your credit card. S75 covers the full contract value not just the amount paid on the card and so there is an argument that this should have had the S75 considered from the outset given the majority of the value wasn't on the card.

Voyager2002

Kor65 said:

I’ve been with NationWide for over 30 years after this complaint has gone through, I won’t be.

Possibly it is unfair to blame Nationwide. I have just been through something similar with Lloyds and after insisting repeatedly I managed to speak with a supervisor. I learned that:
The chargeback is processed by Visa or Mastercard according to their rules. Those rules do state that if you have used a product or service, even if it was of unacceptable quality, the chargeback fails;
As a general rule, call-centre staff have zero discretion and limited understanding of anything beyond their script. In my experience the first person I spoke with was completely inflexible and stuck to the script, while the supervisor appreciated the position, warned that my chargeback would still fail under Mastercard rules, and eventually gave me a refund using the bank's own money.