Product bought delivered to neighbour, out of 14 day return period?

celesp

Hi,

I bought a product (headset) on 12th October,  The Item was delivered to my neighbour and there is image proof of this on the 16th October. They did not give it to me until the 4th Nov as they went away on Holiday. When does the 14 days start? Surely the contract is with me and not my neighbour?

They are now not accepting a return because of this.

What can I do?

Abbafan1972

can’t offer any advice but that was rude of your neighbour to not try and give it you before they went away! 

Alderbank

celesp said:

Hi,

I bought a product for work on 12th October,  The Item was delivered to my neighbour and there is image proof of this on the 16th October. They did not give it to me until the 4th Nov as they went away on Holiday. When does the 14 days start? Surely the contract is with me and not my neighbour?

They are now not accepting a return because of this.

What can I do?

This sounds like a business purchase so consumer rights will not apply.

What is the 14 days you refer to? What do the terms and conditions of the contract of sale say?

celesp

Alderbank said:

celesp said:

Hi,

I bought a product for work on 12th October,  The Item was delivered to my neighbour and there is image proof of this on the 16th October. They did not give it to me until the 4th Nov as they went away on Holiday. When does the 14 days start? Surely the contract is with me and not my neighbour?

They are now not accepting a return because of this.

What can I do?

This sounds like a business purchase so consumer rights will not apply.

What is the 14 days you refer to? What do the terms and conditions of the contract of sale say?

That is misleading, il remove that, I work from home, I bought the product to help me personally while I work from home, I was not required or needed by my job, new headset as my work one was uncomfortable whilst I had an ear infection.

"When you shop online, you have a 14-day grace period to change your mind after receiving the item. This is enshrined in law under the Consumer Contracts Regulations. Once you’ve changed your mind, you then have a further 14 days to return the item. It doesn’t matter why you’ve changed your mind." - Money.co.uk 

By the time I received the Item I no longer needed it.

celesp

Abbafan1972 said:

can’t offer any advice but that was rude of your neighbour to not try and give it you before they went away! 

The lady next door has some severe mental health issues and lets her husband do stuff like that but I believe he was away most of that week as his car was not about. I am not judging them for that.

DullGreyGuy

Abbafan1972 said:

can’t offer any advice but that was rude of your neighbour to not try and give it you before they went away! 

This is always a bit of a debate for us... if you take a parcel in its up to you to deliver it to your neighbour or up to your neighbour to come around to collect it?

Personally I'd say its more on the neighbour to collect than to inconvenience yourself to deliver it on however if you are going on holiday or its a damn big box taking up most the hallway then I'd likely at least attempt to deliver it. 

How do you know they didn't try to give it to the OP @Abbafan1972? Could be they did and the OP didn't answer the door in the same way they didn't answer to the original delivery. 


To the OP - Consumer Contract Regulations, P3.30.(3) states:

(3) If the contract is a sales contract and none of paragraphs (4) to (6) applies, the cancellation period ends at the end of 14 days after the day on which the goods come into the physical possession of—

(a) the consumer, or

(b) a person, other than the carrier, identified by the consumer to take possession of them.

So, assuming you didn't identify your neighbour as the person to leave it with in your absence then the 14 days starts when it comes into your personal possession and not when it came into the possession of a randomly selected neighbour. Obviously one of the challenges is proving that.

Secondly, under 31, if the merchant hasn't provided you all the pre-sales information they are supposed to in the format prescribed by the law the cancellation period doesn't start until such time as they do provide it to a maximum on 12 months.

Okell

celesp said:

Hi,

I bought a product (headset) on 12th October,  The Item was delivered to my neighbour and there is image proof of this on the 16th October. They did not give it to me until the 4th Nov as they went away on Holiday. When does the 14 days start? Surely the contract is with me and not my neighbour?

They are now not accepting a return because of this.

What can I do?

Why do you want to return it?  Is it faulty or is it a change of mind or what?

(a)  If it's faulty - or not as described etc - there is basically no time limit on returns.

(b)  If it's simply a "change of mind" and you want to exercise your statutory right to cancel* the contract under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk), then the 14 days runs from the day the goods were delivered into the physical possession of either you, or somebody nominated by you to take possession of them.  (See regulation 30(3) in the above link).

So if you nominated your neighbour, the 14 days runs from 16 October when the goods were delivered to your nieghbour, but if you did not nominate them, I would argue the 14 days runs from 4th November when your neighbour gave them to you.  but I'm sure you will need to argue this point strongly with the seller if you want to persuade them.  Quote the regulation I refer to above.  If the seller still won't accept the return you might be able to get a chargeback or s75 claim depending on how you paid and how much you paid.  Or you'll have to consider if it's worth issuing a money claim based on the wording of reg 30(3).


*To exercise your statutory right to cancel you have to clearly tell the seller you are doing so within 14 days of the goods coming into your physical possession, and return the goods within a further 14 days


[Edit: cross-posted with @DullGreyGuy -  I agree with "Secondly, under 31, if the merchant hasn't provided you all the pre-sales information they are supposed to in the format prescribed by the law the cancellation period doesn't start until such time as they do provide it to a maximum on 12 months"]

celesp

Okell said:

celesp said:

Hi,

I bought a product (headset) on 12th October,  The Item was delivered to my neighbour and there is image proof of this on the 16th October. They did not give it to me until the 4th Nov as they went away on Holiday. When does the 14 days start? Surely the contract is with me and not my neighbour?

They are now not accepting a return because of this.

What can I do?

Why do you want to return it?  Is it faulty or is it a change of mind or what?

(a)  If it's faulty - or not as described etc - there is basically no time limit on returns.

(b)  If it's simply a "change of mind" and you want to exercise your statutory right to cancel* the contract under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk), then the 14 days runs from the day the goods were delivered into the physical possession of either you, or somebody nominated by you to take possession of them.  (See regulation 30(3) in the above link).

So if you nominated your neighbour, the 14 days runs from 16 October when the goods were delivered to your nieghbour, but if you did not nominate them, I would argue the 14 days runs from 4th November when your neighbour gave them to you.  but I'm sure you will need to argue this point strongly with the seller if you want to persuade them.  Quote the regulation I refer to above.  If the seller still won't accept the return you might be able to get a chargeback or s75 claim depending on how you paid and how much you paid.  Or you'll have to consider if it's worth issuing a money claim based on the wording of reg 30(3).


*To exercise your statutory right to cancel you have to clearly tell the seller you are doing so within 14 days of the goods coming into your physical possession, and return the goods within a further 14 days


[Edit: cross-posted with @DullGreyGuy -  I agree with "Secondly, under 31, if the merchant hasn't provided you all the pre-sales information they are supposed to in the format prescribed by the law the cancellation period doesn't start until such time as they do provide it to a maximum on 12 months"]

Well, I bought them as I had an ear infection and wanted something more comfortable, infection had gone by the 4th so just did not need them anymore.

Exodi

Okell said:

celesp said:

Hi,

I bought a product (headset) on 12th October,  The Item was delivered to my neighbour and there is image proof of this on the 16th October. They did not give it to me until the 4th Nov as they went away on Holiday. When does the 14 days start? Surely the contract is with me and not my neighbour?

They are now not accepting a return because of this.

What can I do?

Why do you want to return it?  Is it faulty or is it a change of mind or what?

(a)  If it's faulty - or not as described etc - there is basically no time limit on returns.

(b)  If it's simply a "change of mind" and you want to exercise your statutory right to cancel* the contract under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk), then the 14 days runs from the day the goods were delivered into the physical possession of either you, or somebody nominated by you to take possession of them.  (See regulation 30(3) in the above link).

So if you nominated your neighbour, the 14 days runs from 16 October when the goods were delivered to your nieghbour, but if you did not nominate them, I would argue the 14 days runs from 4th November when your neighbour gave them to you.  but I'm sure you will need to argue this point strongly with the seller if you want to persuade them.  Quote the regulation I refer to above.  If the seller still won't accept the return you might be able to get a chargeback or s75 claim depending on how you paid and how much you paid.  Or you'll have to consider if it's worth issuing a money claim based on the wording of reg 30(3).


*To exercise your statutory right to cancel you have to clearly tell the seller you are doing so within 14 days of the goods coming into your physical possession, and return the goods within a further 14 days


[Edit: cross-posted with @DullGreyGuy -  I agree with "Secondly, under 31, if the merchant hasn't provided you all the pre-sales information they are supposed to in the format prescribed by the law the cancellation period doesn't start until such time as they do provide it to a maximum on 12 months"]

I'd be careful relying on this, as it feels like this legislation hasn't quite kept pace with modern fulfillment and  there are very few cases of it being tested in court.

If we look at: "which the goods come into the physical possession of— (a)the consumer, or (b)a person, other than the carrier, identified by the consumer to take possession of them."

The modern day 'leave in safe-place' facility isn't enshrined in legislation. You could argue that on a delivery where the consumer nominates a safe place, their statutory rights override requiring the goods to be physically received.

Separately, It is commonplace for Amazon, Evri, etc to leave parcels round the side of a house, without a safe-place nominated. You could say that all these deliveries (perhaps the majority of the deliveries in the UK) are non-compliant.

Also, couriers do not ID recipients of parcels at the address, nor enforce that the parcel may only be received by the person named on the order. A parcel being received by anyone not named on the order (or even the person named on the order, but unprovably) you could say is non-compliant.

However, in a lot of cases, consumers enjoy the convenience of parcels being left outside their house, and of not being required to sit in all day waiting for deliveries - so are perhaps more than happy to waive their statutory rights in lieu of convenience a lot of cases.

Was the item faulty? It's a much easier return if it was.

celesp

Exodi said:

Okell said:

celesp said:

Hi,

I bought a product (headset) on 12th October,  The Item was delivered to my neighbour and there is image proof of this on the 16th October. They did not give it to me until the 4th Nov as they went away on Holiday. When does the 14 days start? Surely the contract is with me and not my neighbour?

They are now not accepting a return because of this.

What can I do?

Why do you want to return it?  Is it faulty or is it a change of mind or what?

(a)  If it's faulty - or not as described etc - there is basically no time limit on returns.

(b)  If it's simply a "change of mind" and you want to exercise your statutory right to cancel* the contract under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk), then the 14 days runs from the day the goods were delivered into the physical possession of either you, or somebody nominated by you to take possession of them.  (See regulation 30(3) in the above link).

So if you nominated your neighbour, the 14 days runs from 16 October when the goods were delivered to your nieghbour, but if you did not nominate them, I would argue the 14 days runs from 4th November when your neighbour gave them to you.  but I'm sure you will need to argue this point strongly with the seller if you want to persuade them.  Quote the regulation I refer to above.  If the seller still won't accept the return you might be able to get a chargeback or s75 claim depending on how you paid and how much you paid.  Or you'll have to consider if it's worth issuing a money claim based on the wording of reg 30(3).


*To exercise your statutory right to cancel you have to clearly tell the seller you are doing so within 14 days of the goods coming into your physical possession, and return the goods within a further 14 days


[Edit: cross-posted with @DullGreyGuy -  I agree with "Secondly, under 31, if the merchant hasn't provided you all the pre-sales information they are supposed to in the format prescribed by the law the cancellation period doesn't start until such time as they do provide it to a maximum on 12 months"]

I'd be careful relying on this, as it feels like this legislation hasn't quite kept pace with modern fulfillment and  there are very few cases of it being tested in court.

If we look at: "which the goods come into the physical possession of— (a)the consumer, or (b)a person, other than the carrier, identified by the consumer to take possession of them."

The modern day 'leave in safe-place' facility isn't enshrined in legislation. You could argue that on a delivery where the consumer nominates a safe place, their statutory rights override requiring the goods to be physically received.

Separately, It is commonplace for Amazon, Evri, etc to leave parcels round the side of a house, without a safe-place nominated. You could say that all these deliveries (perhaps the majority of the deliveries in the UK) are non-compliant.

Also, couriers do not ID recipients of parcels at the address, nor enforce that the parcel may only be received by the person named on the order. A parcel being received by anyone not named on the order (or even the person named on the order, but unprovably) you could say is non-compliant.

However, in a lot of cases, consumers enjoy the convenience of parcels being left outside their house, and of not being required to sit in all day waiting for deliveries - so are perhaps more than happy to waive their statutory rights in lieu of convenience a lot of cases.

Was the item faulty? It's a much easier return if it was.

It was delivered by royal mail, the photo shows my neighbour door number, they never left a "we left it with a neighbour" card and I have never asked them to leave it in a safe place, I would rather it go back to the depot as its only 5 minute walk.

as far as I know, the Item is not faulty, it's still sealed and boxed.

Exodi

celesp said:

Exodi said:

Okell said:

celesp said:

Hi,

I bought a product (headset) on 12th October,  The Item was delivered to my neighbour and there is image proof of this on the 16th October. They did not give it to me until the 4th Nov as they went away on Holiday. When does the 14 days start? Surely the contract is with me and not my neighbour?

They are now not accepting a return because of this.

What can I do?

Why do you want to return it?  Is it faulty or is it a change of mind or what?

(a)  If it's faulty - or not as described etc - there is basically no time limit on returns.

(b)  If it's simply a "change of mind" and you want to exercise your statutory right to cancel* the contract under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk), then the 14 days runs from the day the goods were delivered into the physical possession of either you, or somebody nominated by you to take possession of them.  (See regulation 30(3) in the above link).

So if you nominated your neighbour, the 14 days runs from 16 October when the goods were delivered to your nieghbour, but if you did not nominate them, I would argue the 14 days runs from 4th November when your neighbour gave them to you.  but I'm sure you will need to argue this point strongly with the seller if you want to persuade them.  Quote the regulation I refer to above.  If the seller still won't accept the return you might be able to get a chargeback or s75 claim depending on how you paid and how much you paid.  Or you'll have to consider if it's worth issuing a money claim based on the wording of reg 30(3).


*To exercise your statutory right to cancel you have to clearly tell the seller you are doing so within 14 days of the goods coming into your physical possession, and return the goods within a further 14 days


[Edit: cross-posted with @DullGreyGuy -  I agree with "Secondly, under 31, if the merchant hasn't provided you all the pre-sales information they are supposed to in the format prescribed by the law the cancellation period doesn't start until such time as they do provide it to a maximum on 12 months"]

I'd be careful relying on this, as it feels like this legislation hasn't quite kept pace with modern fulfillment and  there are very few cases of it being tested in court.

If we look at: "which the goods come into the physical possession of— (a)the consumer, or (b)a person, other than the carrier, identified by the consumer to take possession of them."

The modern day 'leave in safe-place' facility isn't enshrined in legislation. You could argue that on a delivery where the consumer nominates a safe place, their statutory rights override requiring the goods to be physically received.

Separately, It is commonplace for Amazon, Evri, etc to leave parcels round the side of a house, without a safe-place nominated. You could say that all these deliveries (perhaps the majority of the deliveries in the UK) are non-compliant.

Also, couriers do not ID recipients of parcels at the address, nor enforce that the parcel may only be received by the person named on the order. A parcel being received by anyone not named on the order (or even the person named on the order, but unprovably) you could say is non-compliant.

However, in a lot of cases, consumers enjoy the convenience of parcels being left outside their house, and of not being required to sit in all day waiting for deliveries - so are perhaps more than happy to waive their statutory rights in lieu of convenience a lot of cases.

Was the item faulty? It's a much easier return if it was.

It was delivered by royal mail, the photo shows my neighbour door number, they never left a "we left it with a neighbour" card and I have never asked them to leave it in a safe place, I would rather it go back to the depot as its only 5 minute walk.

as far as I know, the Item is not faulty, it's still sealed and boxed.

Sorry, I had drifted into probably irrelevant technical musings.

Regardless of our interpretations on legislation, if it was me, I'd go back in the first instance and inform them that I only took physical possession of the goods on the 4th November, so understood you would have 14 days from receiving the goods to return them, i.e. until the 18th November. You can prove that the goods were not delivered to you, so would hope they can appreciate that there would have been a delay in you receiving the goods.

In the second instance, I might mention that it was my understanding under The Consumer Contracts Regulations (linked above) that the cancellation period started when you came into possession of the goods, not when the goods were provably delivered to a different house.

What is the value of the goods out of interest? Unfortunately, if they don't play ball, the next course of action would probably be threatening litigation, and as above I'm not completely confident. If we're talking a tenner, I'd probably exchange a few more emails then give up at that stage (and if there's nothing wrong with the item, sell it to recoup some of the money). Others may opt to take it further.