Claiming for lunch

dpwilks

Hi
I'm a sole trader window cleaning canvasser.  I often worked within 15 miles for just a few hours and I haven't claimed for any food while working, but in the winter especially a hot drink and snack helps.  Also once a week I work about an hour away for at least 4 hours.

I would normally only fo to McDonalds or a coffee shop for a short break, or in the summer buy a meal deal and eat in car.

Any advice please.

Thanks

Brie

If you are meeting potential clients at the McD's and buying them a coffee then I would say you could claim for expenses.  If you are stopping work to have a burger and fries for your lunch you cannot.  That's the same as most people working - I do know of some businesses that supply free lunch (happened a lot during lockdown) but that is on the company's books not the individual's.  How it was accounted for I don't know - it certainly didn't get taxed on the employee so must have been under some general expense category. 

Presumably you are already claiming for petrol used, a percentage for your vehicle and all your supplies and tools.  If your "supplies" included a flask and lunch makings I don't know if that would slip past an accountant/HMRC or not.  It may be likely if you are buying all your window washing supplies from Tescos but no one would believe you are getting soap and sponges from McDs.

DullGreyGuy

You can only claim subsistence when its outside of your routine work... it used to be that it meant you had to stay away the night in a hotel but that part was relaxed a little but still muddy. 

From what you are saying it sounds like just a general meal which therefore fails the requirement to be exclusively for business and so isn't claimable. You can obviously use a thermas from home to get a hot drink if it helps and save more money than the offset tax

Albermarle

DullGreyGuy said:

You can only claim subsistence when its outside of your routine work... it used to be that it meant you had to stay away the night in a hotel but that part was relaxed a little but still muddy. 

From what you are saying it sounds like just a general meal which therefore fails the requirement to be exclusively for business and so isn't claimable. You can obviously use a thermas from home to get a hot drink if it helps and save more money than the offset tax

I was on the road as a sales/commercial guy for  over 30 years for 4 different companies. In each case I was always allowed to claim for my own lunch ( not with clients) with a receipt. No need for an overnight stay, but as long as I was travelling around seeing customers then it was OK. Typically it was only a few quid though. I think if I went for a pub lunch it would have been frowned upon. Even if I was not seeing customers, but travelling to another distant company location it was still OK, as was having a couple of drinks at the airport whilst you were hanging about.
It is more down to the employers attitude as much as anything.

tacpot12

Albermarle said:

DullGreyGuy said:

You can only claim subsistence when its outside of your routine work... it used to be that it meant you had to stay away the night in a hotel but that part was relaxed a little but still muddy. 

From what you are saying it sounds like just a general meal which therefore fails the requirement to be exclusively for business and so isn't claimable. You can obviously use a thermas from home to get a hot drink if it helps and save more money than the offset tax

I was on the road as a sales/commercial guy for  over 30 years for 4 different companies. In each case I was always allowed to claim for my own lunch ( not with clients) with a receipt. No need for an overnight stay, but as long as I was travelling around seeing customers then it was OK. Typically it was only a few quid though. I think if I went for a pub lunch it would have been frowned upon. Even if I was not seeing customers, but travelling to another distant company location it was still OK, as was having a couple of drinks at the airport whilst you were hanging about.
It is more down to the employers attitude as much as anything.

It's not down to the employer's attitude if the expense is to be tax deductable. The employer can pay you if they want to, but they can't deduct the expense from their income if the expense wasn't wholly, exclusively and necessary for the business, so you will pay tax on it, which rather defeats the object of claiming for your lunch. 

Jeremy535897

Albermarle said:

DullGreyGuy said:

You can only claim subsistence when its outside of your routine work... it used to be that it meant you had to stay away the night in a hotel but that part was relaxed a little but still muddy. 

From what you are saying it sounds like just a general meal which therefore fails the requirement to be exclusively for business and so isn't claimable. You can obviously use a thermas from home to get a hot drink if it helps and save more money than the offset tax

I was on the road as a sales/commercial guy for  over 30 years for 4 different companies. In each case I was always allowed to claim for my own lunch ( not with clients) with a receipt. No need for an overnight stay, but as long as I was travelling around seeing customers then it was OK. Typically it was only a few quid though. I think if I went for a pub lunch it would have been frowned upon. Even if I was not seeing customers, but travelling to another distant company location it was still OK, as was having a couple of drinks at the airport whilst you were hanging about.
It is more down to the employers attitude as much as anything.

He's self employed, not an employee. The rules are different. DullGreyGuy has it right.

uknick

Brie said:

If you are meeting potential clients at the McD's and buying them a coffee then I would say you could claim for expenses.

Entertaining is not tax deductible for Ltd or sole traders and I assume any other business organisation.

Albermarle

tacpot12 said:

Albermarle said:

DullGreyGuy said:

You can only claim subsistence when its outside of your routine work... it used to be that it meant you had to stay away the night in a hotel but that part was relaxed a little but still muddy. 

From what you are saying it sounds like just a general meal which therefore fails the requirement to be exclusively for business and so isn't claimable. You can obviously use a thermas from home to get a hot drink if it helps and save more money than the offset tax

I was on the road as a sales/commercial guy for  over 30 years for 4 different companies. In each case I was always allowed to claim for my own lunch ( not with clients) with a receipt. No need for an overnight stay, but as long as I was travelling around seeing customers then it was OK. Typically it was only a few quid though. I think if I went for a pub lunch it would have been frowned upon. Even if I was not seeing customers, but travelling to another distant company location it was still OK, as was having a couple of drinks at the airport whilst you were hanging about.
It is more down to the employers attitude as much as anything.

It's not down to the employer's attitude if the expense is to be tax deductible. The employer can pay you if they want to, but they can't deduct the expense from their income if the expense wasn't wholly, exclusively and necessary for the business, so you will pay tax on it, which rather defeats the object of claiming for your lunch. 

I never paid any tax on it with any of the employers.
It was all lumped in with general travelling costs for an employee whose job it was to travel around visiting customers. So it was all classed as wholly and exclusively necessary for business. I suppose if you drive 200 miles up the M1 to visit a customer, then a sandwich and a bag of crisps from the services is necessary to keep you going and therefore necessary for the business.

Jeremy535897

uknick said:

Brie said:

If you are meeting potential clients at the McD's and buying them a coffee then I would say you could claim for expenses.

Entertaining is not tax deductible for Ltd or sole traders and I assume any other business organisation.

I don't think that providing a coffee when meeting a client is regarded as "entertaining." See:
https://www.all-paul.co.uk/post/food-and-drink-provided-to-customers-is-it-tax-deductible

[Deleted User]

Albermarle said:

tacpot12 said:

Albermarle said:

DullGreyGuy said:

You can only claim subsistence when its outside of your routine work... it used to be that it meant you had to stay away the night in a hotel but that part was relaxed a little but still muddy. 

From what you are saying it sounds like just a general meal which therefore fails the requirement to be exclusively for business and so isn't claimable. You can obviously use a thermas from home to get a hot drink if it helps and save more money than the offset tax

I was on the road as a sales/commercial guy for  over 30 years for 4 different companies. In each case I was always allowed to claim for my own lunch ( not with clients) with a receipt. No need for an overnight stay, but as long as I was travelling around seeing customers then it was OK. Typically it was only a few quid though. I think if I went for a pub lunch it would have been frowned upon. Even if I was not seeing customers, but travelling to another distant company location it was still OK, as was having a couple of drinks at the airport whilst you were hanging about.
It is more down to the employers attitude as much as anything.

It's not down to the employer's attitude if the expense is to be tax deductible. The employer can pay you if they want to, but they can't deduct the expense from their income if the expense wasn't wholly, exclusively and necessary for the business, so you will pay tax on it, which rather defeats the object of claiming for your lunch. 

I never paid any tax on it with any of the employers.
It was all lumped in with general travelling costs for an employee whose job it was to travel around visiting customers. So it was all classed as wholly and exclusively necessary for business. I suppose if you drive 200 miles up the M1 to visit a customer, then a sandwich and a bag of crisps from the services is necessary to keep you going and therefore necessary for the business.

Your employer was entirely incorrect in that approach, effectively lumping together allowable and non-allowable expenses. A PAYE inspector would have had a field day on a random visit.

Albermarle

purdyoaten2 said:

Albermarle said:

tacpot12 said:

Albermarle said:

DullGreyGuy said:

You can only claim subsistence when its outside of your routine work... it used to be that it meant you had to stay away the night in a hotel but that part was relaxed a little but still muddy. 

From what you are saying it sounds like just a general meal which therefore fails the requirement to be exclusively for business and so isn't claimable. You can obviously use a thermas from home to get a hot drink if it helps and save more money than the offset tax

I was on the road as a sales/commercial guy for  over 30 years for 4 different companies. In each case I was always allowed to claim for my own lunch ( not with clients) with a receipt. No need for an overnight stay, but as long as I was travelling around seeing customers then it was OK. Typically it was only a few quid though. I think if I went for a pub lunch it would have been frowned upon. Even if I was not seeing customers, but travelling to another distant company location it was still OK, as was having a couple of drinks at the airport whilst you were hanging about.
It is more down to the employers attitude as much as anything.

It's not down to the employer's attitude if the expense is to be tax deductible. The employer can pay you if they want to, but they can't deduct the expense from their income if the expense wasn't wholly, exclusively and necessary for the business, so you will pay tax on it, which rather defeats the object of claiming for your lunch. 

I never paid any tax on it with any of the employers.
It was all lumped in with general travelling costs for an employee whose job it was to travel around visiting customers. So it was all classed as wholly and exclusively necessary for business. I suppose if you drive 200 miles up the M1 to visit a customer, then a sandwich and a bag of crisps from the services is necessary to keep you going and therefore necessary for the business.

Your employer was entirely incorrect in that approach, effectively lumping together allowable and non-allowable expenses. A PAYE inspector would have had a field day on a random visit.

In fact four different employers allowed it, all largish multi nationals, one very large ! I even had to submit receipts as part of the expenses claim, so they could claim the VAT back. 
If I remember correctly it was classed as a subsistence payment.
I have talked to a couple of people who had similar jobs but with different companies, and they both said they always claimed for lunch when 'out on the road' although one said their company put quite a low limit on it of £4 ( cost of a Tesco meal deal maybe) 

I wonder if there is some misunderstanding here. I never claimed any tax back, the company just reimbursed me with my costs. According to this link, it all seems OK.
Guide to HMRC Subsistence Allowance & Expenses (travelperk.com)