Looking for a new flat in London, would renting from this organisation be covered under LHA?

holdorflod

poppy12345 said:

I think there's some confusion here. Bills such as telephone, internet, energy, council tax etc etc are not included and UC will not include help for any of those. Those threads are correct and you will need a breakdown of all those costs when you apply for help with any rent.

Then again, I've just seen this written by a Benefits Consultant:

https://www.rightsnet.org.uk/forums/viewreply/70990/
"For completeness, UC will pay the utilities if they are a condition of tenancy and the total amount of rent plus utilities is still within the LHA rate. "

The confusion thickens?

HillStreetBlues

If it's private renting then no breakdown is needed, they will pay the lowest cost of either the rent or LHA.

https://www.propertytribes.com/hmo-bills-included-breakdown-t-127659890.html

Bill irvine2  18 May at 14:14

Hi

If I had a £1 for every time I’ve been asked this question  I could have retired.

The problem is caused by simple ignorance of the rules by DWP decision making staff, many of whom have not been properly trained nor supported.

Separating the contractual rent from service charges is something that applies to some social landlord tenancies where the service charges need to be identified to assess eligibility.

Contrastingly, PRS tenancies are assessed using the local housing allowance rate, nothing else. So, there should be no need for your tenant to provide the requested breakdown. All DWP needs do is, assess the “maximum rent” by comparing the contractual rent to the appropriate LHA rate and allow the lower figure.

I would supply your tenant with a letter confirming the above and recommend he simply uploads this onto his journal. He shouldn’t experience any further problems but if he does, advise him to lodge a Mandatory Reconsideration request. That should sort things.

Bill

There is a bio of Bill Irvine here  https://www.nrla.org.uk/news/blog-can-under-35s-qualify-for-the-one-bedroom-rate-under-universal-credit

Bill Irvine Universal Credit Consultant

Bill has quickly become known as a very effective Welfare Rights Advocate. He has been involved in most of the major social security changes since the early 80’s when Housing Benefit was first introduced. As well as offering advice and assistance to landlords, primarily in the RSL/PRS sectors, he also provides representation when disputes can’t be resolved through negotiation and where they have to be progressed through the formal tribunal process, initially to First Tier and, if necessary, through to Upper Tier level where some of his cases have proved to be of national importance to disadvantaged groups.

holdorflod

HillStreetBlues said:

If it's private renting then no breakdown is needed, they will pay the lowest cost of either the rent or LHA.

https://www.propertytribes.com/hmo-bills-included-breakdown-t-127659890.html

Bill irvine2  18 May at 14:14

Hi

If I had a £1 for every time I’ve been asked this question  I could have retired.

The problem is caused by simple ignorance of the rules by DWP decision making staff, many of whom have not been properly trained nor supported.

Separating the contractual rent from service charges is something that applies to some social landlord tenancies where the service charges need to be identified to assess eligibility.

Contrastingly, PRS tenancies are assessed using the local housing allowance rate, nothing else. So, there should be no need for your tenant to provide the requested breakdown. All DWP needs do is, assess the “maximum rent” by comparing the contractual rent to the appropriate LHA rate and allow the lower figure.

I would supply your tenant with a letter confirming the above and recommend he simply uploads this onto his journal. He shouldn’t experience any further problems but if he does, advise him to lodge a Mandatory Reconsideration request. That should sort things.

Bill

There is a bio of Bill Irvine here  https://www.nrla.org.uk/news/blog-can-under-35s-qualify-for-the-one-bedroom-rate-under-universal-credit

Bill Irvine Universal Credit Consultant

Bill has quickly become known as a very effective Welfare Rights Advocate. He has been involved in most of the major social security changes since the early 80’s when Housing Benefit was first introduced. As well as offering advice and assistance to landlords, primarily in the RSL/PRS sectors, he also provides representation when disputes can’t be resolved through negotiation and where they have to be progressed through the formal tribunal process, initially to First Tier and, if necessary, through to Upper Tier level where some of his cases have proved to be of national importance to disadvantaged groups.

Thank you, this seems like the definitive answer, and this part "The problem is caused by simple ignorance of the rules by DWP decision making staff, many of whom have not been properly trained nor supported." would seem to explain why there's contrary views and experiences with this.

nannytone_2

The chances of anyone Being able to rent any kind of property within the lha
ra are minimal.for that cost to include bills is Almost laughable
I live in a small  market tow  the 3 bed lha is 550.  Available 3 beds are between 750 tp 850.
The 1 bed lha is 389, but the cheapest house share is 450.  The shared accommodation rate is 55 a week

Newcad

holdorflod said:

"For completeness, UC will pay the utilities if they are a condition of tenancy and the total amount of rent plus utilities is still within the LHA rate. "

The confusion thickens?

No confusion it says exactly what I said above -

If the amount for private 'rent' is less than the applicable LHA then it is that 'rent' amount that will be paid, it doesn't matter what that 'rent' includes or not.

But if you can find a flat, even a room in a HMO, with an all-inclusive rent that is less than the applicable LHA then you should get your application in quickly.
PS. You do occasionally see rooms in HMO's with such low all inclusive rents, I'd be asking myself what's wrong with them for it to be so low.

here are some threads which further add to the confusion about UC complaining about rent including bills in some cases:

Again as I said somewhere above; UC will ALWAYS ask for a breakdown of what it is included in a 'rent' payment.
That breakdown isn't taken into acccount for a private rental, but they ALWAYS ask for it.

EDIT- Here you go, it's on the first page:

Newcad said:

*NOTE that UC (and Housing Benefit for those who can claim it) will ALWAYS ask about service charges and included bills - regardless of whether you live in a private or social rental.
That's simply because they have found that often claimants aren't sure which type it is that they are living in, so they always just gather the information about charges whether it's needed or not.

**Subject to the under-occupancy charge. (Which doesn't apply in private rentals because it's already accounted for by LHA bedroom entitlement instead).

HillStreetBlues

Newcad said:

The end result of both methods is that Housing Benefit or UC Housing Element is not paying monies towards utility bills - (with a very few unusual exceptions to that in private rentals where a little bit may end up being paid towards bills, but certainly nowhere near the whole bill).

I can see where confusion can arise.
With that quote you never made it clear you were talking about the real world realities, rather than the actual UC law.

holdorflod

Newcad said:

PS. You do occasionally see rooms in HMO's with such low all inclusive rents, I'd be asking myself what's wrong with them for it to be so low.

Again as I said somewhere above; UC will ALWAYS ask for a breakdown of what it is included in a 'rent' payment.

I've been looking at rooms on spareroom.co.uk for some time now, and every room I've seen in London in an HMO including bills have been below the 1-bed LHA rate. Except bar maybe 1 out of 50 or so  particularly high-end ones where it might be slightly over. This only applies if you're over 35 though, otherwise you'd get the shared room rate which is nothing.

re: UC asking for a breakdown of bills, is that something you absolutely must provide with evidence? I wouldn't want my landlord knowing I get UC so I could imagine awkward situations asking for breakdowns.

HillStreetBlues

holdorflod said:

I've been looking at rooms on spareroom.co.uk for some time now, and every room I've seen in London in an HMO including bills have been below the 1-bed LHA rate. Except bar maybe 1 out of 50 or so  particularly high-end ones where it might be slightly over. This only applies if you're over 35 though, otherwise you'd get the shared room rate which is nothing.

re: UC asking for a breakdown of bills, is that something you absolutely must provide with evidence? I wouldn't want my landlord knowing I get UC so I could imagine awkward situations asking for breakdowns.

There is rent and service charge.
If you pay solely rent  then no breakdown is required
If you pay a service charge then the service charge needs to  be broken down .
You have no rights to see  how rent is broken down, but with a service charge you to have a right to see how it's calculated.

Newcad

HillStreetBlues said:
With that quote you never made it clear you were talking about the real world realities, rather than the actual UC law.

That is the LHA law as it is written.

HillStreetBlues said:
If you pay solely rent  then no breakdown is required

Whilst it is correct that by LHA law a breakdown is not required for a private rental, UC will ALWAYS ask for a breakdown of rent. (And then if its a private rental, that breakdown is discarded and never used).

That one is UC operational policy. (the unreal world of UC). They always ask for one even when it isn't needed.

holdorflod

Newcad said:

Whilst it is correct that by LHA law a breakdown is not required for a private rental, UC will ALWAYS ask for a breakdown of rent. (And then if its a private rental, that breakdown is discarded and never used).

That one is UC operational policy. (the unreal world of UC). They always ask for one even when it isn't needed.

Would my word suffice or would there need to be something written by the landlord?

I'm mainly just looking at rooms in HMO's with bills included now, so all this info I'm learning here is greatly appreciated thanks.