Compensation from Howdens

Ren90

Hi all
We had a kitchen supplied from Howdens as part of a renovation (where we converted a garage into the kitchen). They never came out at any point to complete a survey or take any measuremets, they did it based on our architects approx measurements and a measurement from our electrician. The kitchen got delivered on Monday, Tuesday the fitters came and our kitchen space was too small for the kitchen designed. We'd lost one cupboard following the electrician's re-measure of one wall, and due to the kitchen then not fitting, we've now lost cutlery drawers, carousels in two corner cupboards, and have less cupboard space than we initially should've had (sorry I know this is first world problems). We are basically not getting the kitchen we planned or paid for. The installation is taking longer than planned also now. Howdens have said they will refund the difference between the old carousel units and the new smaller ones, but after complaining to them, have basically asked us to give them a figure to try and resolve it for us. We are upset that their service has been bad, we don't have the kitchen we actually wanted, the fitters are here for more time, so we may also have to pay them extra too. 
Can anyone offer any advice on how much we should ask for? We paid approx £8500 overall. 
Many thanks
Ren

Bradden

Howdens generally only sell to the trade.. .how did you pay for the goods?

subjecttocontract

Presumably you placed the order, you provided the measurements, so that bit is your responsibility. I've bought 4 kitchens from Howdens over the last 6 years and they didn't visit the properties. They design kitchens around the information you supply. I don't know what it is that you think Howdens have done wrong.

Ren90

We went through on our Builders account, we paid cash direct to Howdens. Both builder and carpenters can't believe no one from Howdens has ever been out to measure, or that they sent out a kitchen without measuring. After speaking with Howdens today they've said they should've come out to atleast to a final measure check before sending the kitchen out.

[Deleted User]

It looks like  business to business purchase through your builder so no consumer rights apply.
I'd suggest it was your builder's responsibility to check the measurements as you are their customer. Howdens have no business relationship with you - the fact they are willing to help I'd consider good customer service.

DullGreyGuy

Ren90 said:

Can anyone offer any advice on how much we should ask for? We paid approx £8500 overall. 

You cannot have the kitchen you paid for because you don't have the space you claimed you had. 

First of all, who are you actually in contract with? You ordered via the builders account so it may well be your dispute is with your builder not Howden 

Secondly, what does the T&Cs you agreed to say about measurements? Normally it ultimately puts it on you to have provided the correct measurements. 

Finally... what you should ask for is how much it's costing you... they've exchanged the units so you've had no cost there. If the fitters are charging you more for the delays then the extra charge would be a head of claim. Doesn't sound as if you've suffered any other financial losses?

If the terms say its your responsibility though your basically looking for a goodwill gesture 

subjecttocontract

Ren90 said:

We went through on our Builders account, we paid cash direct to Howdens. Both builder and carpenters can't believe no one from Howdens has ever been out to measure, or that they sent out a kitchen without measuring. After speaking with Howdens today they've said they should've come out to atleast to a final measure check before sending the kitchen out.

Then tell them to come & collect it and at the same time send round the guy to do the final measure/check/ confirmation.

If course youll have to redesign the kitchen if you want to incorporate those bits that won't fit. But at least you should end up with the kitchen you want. If Howdes now send a guy to check measurements and they didn't then they have to accept some of the responsibility in my book.

Ren90

It's too late for them to come and measure now as the fitters have started fitting and have made adjustments along the way to fit it.We've been out of home for 3 months for this renovation due to other things going wrong, and we are currently living upstairs with very limited capability for meals for our children / more ready meals / takeaways.
Howdens have said themselves that they should've come to measure, we've never seen or been given any Ts&Cs. Howdens have only ever liaised with us directly other than when it related to a delivery date. But now we've basically got a kitchen that's been manipulated to fit, because what we wanted won't fit, and they've asked us to tell them what we'd like to be able to resolve it, and this is what we aren't sure of what to ask for.

turnitround

Im not sure how you think Howdens are responsible for any of this.

By your own admission you let them design the kitchen on your architects approx measurements. A kitchen needs measuring accurately and there is rarely room for error.

Then you say your electricians measurements were incorrect as you lost a unit because he had to remeasure.

Did you book an appointment with Howdens for them to supply the kitchen, if so then were they aware the measurements were approx? I cant see them agreeing to supply based n approx measurements.

If you did get them to design the kitchen then I expect you or your builder will have signed something to say measurements are correct and to approve the design.

I would say this is a combination of fault on the architect/electrician/builders part.

Unless Howdens had the exact measurements to work to I cannot see how they are at fault. Saying they should have come out, did you make an appointment for them to come out? If not then you have gone ahead and allowed your builder to purchase units based on an approximation.

Ren90

turnitround said:

Im not sure how you think Howdens are responsible for any of this.

By your own admission you let them design the kitchen on your architects approx measurements. A kitchen needs measuring accurately and there is rarely room for error.

Then you say your electricians measurements were incorrect as you lost a unit because he had to remeasure.

Did you book an appointment with Howdens for them to supply the kitchen, if so then were they aware the measurements were approx? I cant see them agreeing to supply based n approx measurements.

If you did get them to design the kitchen then I expect you or your builder will have signed something to say measurements are correct and to approve the design.

I would say this is a combination of fault on the architect/electrician/builders part.

Unless Howdens had the exact measurements to work to I cannot see how they are at fault. Saying they should have come out, did you make an appointment for them to come out? If not then you have gone ahead and allowed your builder to purchase units based on an approximation.

Yes we went to a design appointment with them, and they knew the measurements were approx and who supplied them. We have never done any work before, and relied on the professionals to do their job correctly and know what needed to be done? We nor our builder have signed anything to say the measurements were correct. We had the design appointment, Howdens sent us the quote, we agreed the quote, paid the deposit and that was that. The builder didn't purchase anything, we did this all directly with Howdens.

Howdens themselves have admitted they should've come out to measure so I don't see why we should take responsibility for this. Also this post wasn't an argument about who was or wasn't at fault (seeing as Howdens have said they should've come to measure and dropped the ball). It was more how to work out a figure to request from them as they've asked us for.

bluelad1927

You clearly knew that Howdens hadn't been out to measure so why didn't you act on this before the kitchen was delivered. There was only one set of measurements they had to go on and they were approximations. I can't see how this can be Howdens fault