Windscreen ticket confirmation

AJBarlow

Hi

I have read the newbies thread, several times over the years.

This is the 1st time I have ever received a windscreen ticket though and when reading it, even though I lease the car, it says to appeal ASAP to hook it to me.

This seems alien to what I would have thought though, surely I want them to request my details from the lease conpany, so they inevitably don't conform to POPFA?

Not questioning the various guru's knowledge, just hoping for some better understanding of why I should appeal.

Thanks

KeithP

One of the reasons is to avoid the involvement of the leasing company.
Typically, upon receipt of a parking charge, a leasing company will give up the day to day keeper's details and charge the day to day keeper, i.e. you, a sum of around £25 for doing so.

Doing that, i.e. avoiding the involvement of the leasing company, will also mean that the parking company will not know about the lease and their case will fall apart later.

As you have seen, it does say in the opening post of the NEWBIES thread...

Coupon-mad

Even worse, some lease firms just pay the PCN then charge the lessee with an admin fee on top. 

AJBarlow

Ah right, ok. So I have had a few charges before over the 9 years I've been with the leasing company. They always just pass on my details, then the company writes to me, leaving out the extra documentation they should send to enable them to use POPFA. This then gives me an easy win.

Would the advice in this case therefore be, to allow the company to contact the leasing firm and wait for the PCN, with no accompanying documents?

AJBarlow

KeithP said:

One of the reasons is to avoid the involvement of the leasing company.
Typically, upon receipt of a parking charge, a leasing company will give up the day to day keeper's details and charge the day to day keeper, i.e. you, a sum of around £25 for doing so.

Doing that, i.e. avoiding the involvement of the leasing company, will also mean that the parking company will not know about the lease and their case will fall apart later.

As you have seen, it does say in the opening post of the NEWBIES thread...

Thanks Keith. I read that, but as I said I can normally just wait for them to fail to send me the appropriate documentation and leave themselves unable to use POPFA, the golden ticket approach. So I read that and the 2 things seemed at odds with each other. I didn't know some leasing companies charge the hirer for providing their details.

Fruitcake

It is up to you. The advice to appeal by day 14 is based on years of experience of how most hire/lease companies normally operate. The risk you run by waiting for the PPC to contact your lease company is that there is a new employee there, or a new instruction to pay charges and add on an admin fee, then you are fighting a rear-guard action to get your money back.
Our method avoids that risk. It is important however to instruct your hire/lease company that you are dealing with the charge and they must not pay it if they do receive a NTK from the PPC.

AJBarlow

I have been with the same lease company for many years and their process has always been the same, so I doubt very much it will suddenly change (although accept there is always that slight chance).

I have also read and re-read the ticket and at no point does it give me the opportunity to name the driver, so I don't think it can be assumed to be the notice to keeper. In fact, all it does say in that regard is that, 'failure to pay will result in them requesting the keepers details and sending one'. 

Please believe me, that I am not questioning the logic and appreciate that the advice given is the best advice for a broad range of people in similar circumstances. I have used the advice on here to the letter a few times over the last 10 years and always got the desired result.

On the contrary, its after reading all the advice on here and knowing my own personal circumstances, that I am inclined to think I am best to wait for the notice to keeper, in this instance. 

So unless there is a legal reason why I shouldn't, like the golden ticket POPFA defence would be invalid in this case, and it is just that the lease company may pay it or charge me, I think that's what I will do.

Thanks, your help and advice is very much appreciated!

Fruitcake

Your call. By the way, it's POFA, not POPFA.

UncleThomasCobley

Have a careful re-read of your lease agreement. Most make no reference to speculative invoices from unregulated private parking companies, on to "fines" or "penalties" from the "police" or an "authority". The scammers you are dealing with are none of those and so the lease company should never pay it and if they do, you can refuse to pay them back or instruct your bank/credit card company to put a hold on there payment.

All they have to do is respond to the NtK by providing your details to the PPC in order to transfer liability from the lease company to the "hirer", you. As you are aware, the PPC will invariably screw up and not provide all the copies of the necessary documents in order to be able to transfer liability to you, the hirer, thus leaving them unable to proceed any further because they do not know the identity of the "driver".

Oc course, the scammers will try and accuse the "hirer" of being the "driver" but they have no legal leg to stand on. As for the lease company paying the PCN and then trying to charge it back to you is a breach of your lease and you have recourse to challenge it.

Le_Kirk

AJBarlow said:

On the contrary, its after reading all the advice on here and knowing my own personal circumstances, that I am inclined to think I am best to wait for the notice to keeper, in this instance. 

You are not the keeper, as you state the car is through a lease company, therefore you should receive a Notice to Hirer (NTH) once the lease company transfers liability to you as hirer not driver.