Late husbands COD payment from Pension Provider

jamesd

xylophone said:

That might be the spectre to be twenty to forty times the ongoing payment you were due to get. They would need your agreement to do this.

Ghost of a chance? 

The OP has stated 

no they didnt give me a lump sum just £224 per annum for a couple of years. I dont know where they dreamt up the £224 it was about 1/5th of his pension.

The OP might still have some paperwork relating to this policy which would explain the above - otherwise she could contact Phoenix but after ten years it might be difficult to get an explanation.

One of the weirder spelling "corrections" I've seen and failed to catch. Though apt in this case with no lump sum paid.

gmje

xylophone said:

OP, see

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a758e27e5274a6faebebd94/derived-inherited-entitlement.pdf

If the situation is that you became entitled to your SP post 5/4/16 (not 5/4/17), see page 12 in particular.

given that this white paper was published after my husband died-i would expect these ammendments not to apply to me? 

gmje

xylophone said:

That might be the spectre to be twenty to forty times the ongoing payment you were due to get. They would need your agreement to do this.

Ghost of a chance? 

The OP has stated 

no they didnt give me a lump sum just £224 per annum for a couple of years. I dont know where they dreamt up the £224 it was about 1/5th of his pension.

The OP might still have some paperwork relating to this policy which would explain the above - otherwise she could contact Phoenix but after ten years it might be difficult to get an explanation.

xylophone said:

That might be the spectre to be twenty to forty times the ongoing payment you were due to get. They would need your agreement to do this.

Ghost of a chance? 

The OP has stated 

no they didnt give me a lump sum just £224 per annum for a couple of years. I dont know where they dreamt up the £224 it was about 1/5th of his pension.

The OP might still have some paperwork relating to this policy which would explain the above - otherwise she could contact Phoenix but after ten years it might be difficult to get an explanation.

xylophone said:

Prior to 2012 the APP schmes had to provide as least what an individual would have got if they had been contracted in.  If we hadnt had that assurance why would we choose to gamble?  

Appropriate Personal Pension?

The statement above is not correct.

See and read through

https://techzone.abrdn.com/public/pensions/Tech-guide-contracting-out

A COSR ( and COMB)  1978-97  had to offer a GMP.  An APP didn't.

"Protected Rights" simply restricted the use of that part of a personal pension that arose from the contracted out rebate.

The amount of the pension that was "protected rights" just like the "non-protected rights" would depend on how the investments within the pension wrapper had performed over the investment period.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1993/48/section/7/enacted

section7/ 1.......personal pension scheme is an appropriate scheme......

its not GMP im looking to get paid because GMP is only applicable to an occupational scheme.
irs the equivelent to Serps. The 1993 Act says in order to be a certified appropriate scheme it had to offer
the same benefits. the 2012 changes were dated 6th april.

You say that the Protected rights simply restricted...........do you know what the restrictions were please?

xylophone

given that this white paper was published after my husband died-i would expect these ammendments not to apply to me? 

We were discussing what might happen with regard to any entitlement to  derived/inherited state pension.

It would appear that your late spouse died in 2013 at age 64, just prior to becoming eligible for his state pension in the old system.

It seems that you were several years younger, around age 55/56 at the time and thus not eligible to receive your own state pension at that time.

Page 12 in the link  gives Scenario 2

Scenario 2: a. Dependant reaches State Pension age in single tier
b. Contributor reaches State Pension age OR dies in the current system 

This appears to cover your case?

Your benefit entitlement letter from DWP shows how your SP is made up?

gmje

jamesd said:

Because he'd already bought the annuity the rules change in 2012 should have made no difference. I expect them to pay the full annuity amount for the five years from purchase guarantee period then to cut to an ongoing 50% for you.

It is possible to offer a lump sum instead of continuing to pay. That might be twenty to forty times the ongoing payment you were due to get. They would need your agreement to do this.

Jamesd thanks for your response. I think after reading on this im inclined to agree with you. at the time my husband died it was traumatic for me and im afraid I presumed what they paid me was correct but it cant have been. it simply bears no correlation to any of the previous figures. I will take it up with them.

gmje

xylophone said:

And incidentally, OP, you state

His contributions were 1998 -1997 

My husband paid into this 2nd pension between 1987 - 1999 

Do you mean 1988 - 97? Contracting out into an APP  became possible from 1988.

yes sorry typo....1988-97

xylophone

There is no GMP within an APP.

It was the GMP that had to be at least as high as the pension the person would have received had he remained contracted in to SERPS.

Up to 1988, it was only possible for COSR schemes to contract out of SERPS.

From 1988, it became possible for a person to contract out of SERPS into a Personal Pension.

This was a money purchase scheme.

Part of his NI contributions were rebated into his Personal Pension.

At that time people were offered an incentive to leave SERPS in so far as for the first five years, the government contributed an additional 2% of a person's earnings to his personal pension.

The point of contracting out was that there was the possibility (sometimes put forward as probability) that the invested rebates would produce a pension that was higher than the person would have received had he remained contracted in to  the state additional pension scheme but there was no guarantee of this.

The contributions to the personal pension were invested in the hope of growth up to pension age.

That part of the person's pension fund that was built up from the NI rebates was known as his "protected rights".


 Protected Rights were essentially the money purchase equivalent of the GMP but, unlike the GMP, the level of Protected Rights did not have to be guaranteed. 



It had to be clearly separated and identifiable within the pension and up to 2008, there were certain restrictions on the types of funds in which it could be invested.

If an annuity was purchased, the whole of the Protected Rights fund had to be used.

The other major requirement was that related to a  50% pension for the widow of the pensioner.

Do you have any of your late husband's paperwork relating to the pension?

gmje

cant find anything much. got the annuity quote . will have another look

QrizB

gmje said:

cant find anything much. got the annuity quote . will have another look

What does the quote say? I'd expect there to be useful details there.

gmje

QrizB said:

gmje said:

cant find anything much. got the annuity quote . will have another look

What does the quote say? I'd expect there to be useful details there.

nothing that gives me the answer to my question