Late husbands COD payment from Pension Provider

xylophone

OP, see

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a758e27e5274a6faebebd94/derived-inherited-entitlement.pdf

If the situation is that you became entitled to your SP post 5/4/16 (not 5/4/17), see page 12 in particular.

gmje

xylophone said:

my husband died 2013.

He got a a contracted out plan with Allied Dunbar ,Zuric subsequently took over. when he came to take the pension prior to his death they only offered 2  choicesof annuity with Prudential .The sum of £23k said protected rights ....

The rules and restrictions relating to protected rights ended on 6 April 2012.

Did your husband purchase the annuity after this point?

Or he purchased it earlier, died within the guarantee period and you benefited as indicated in my previous?

Either way, it would you appear that you are not entitled to any further benefits from this pension.

Please can you clarify when you yourself reached SPA?

Was it before or after 6/4/16?

He took the annuity in 2008 and died within the guaranteed period. I reached SPA 2023 so I dont understand why the protected rights dont kick in?

gmje

jamesd said:

Protected rights used to require that a spouse would get payments after death so you getting nothing implies that he bought after the protected rights restrictions ended. Good to check and be sure, though.

From his date of death you should have some of his additional (earnings-related) state pension added to yours. Might not be much because he could have been contracted out a lot.

jamesd said:

Protected rights used to require that a spouse would get payments after death so you getting nothing implies that he bought after the protected rights restrictions ended. Good to check and be sure, though.

From his date of death you should have some of his additional (earnings-related) state pension added to yours. Might not be much because he could have been contracted out a lot.

Jamesd  His contributions were 1998 -1997  and he took the pension in 2008, died in 2013 so surely the protected Rights should have been applied to the annuity in 2008?

jamesd

I also don't know how he could have been able to buy a single life pension then when dual life was one of the key protected rights. 

(Edit: it was possible to opt out of dual life if unmarried)

xylophone

As his widow within the state scheme I would get approx £30 p week for life 

Have you read p12 of the link in my post above?

It explains the situation regarding inheritance of of state pension where the contributor reached SPA or died in the old system (as did your spouse) and the dependant ( like you) reached SPA in the new scheme.

It would appear that your late spouse contracted out of SERPS/S2P for a period - during that time, part of his National Insurance contributions were rebated to  the Allied Dunbar Personal Pension with Protected Rights.

It would not be true to say that this policy would give exactly the same pension as would have been received had he remained contracted in to SERPS/S2P - the returns on his contributions would have depended on the performance of investments within the policy, as they do with any DC scheme.

It seems that your husband chose to buy an annuity with his PR funds in  2008 - see this article

https://www.financialadvice.net/protected_rights_pension/zone/378

On death AFTER the Protected Rights pension was taken by the member, the pension it provided used to have to continue at half rate (50%) to the member's spouse (as long as they had children or were over the age of 45).

However, it appears that there was a guarantee period attached to the annuity and your husband died within the guarantee period.

What information did the annuity provider give you when you advised your husband's death? 

Was there a lump sum paid to you in full satisfaction of any spousal rights under the policy?

gmje

Xylophone I am very grateful for your responses and your depth of knowledge.  Yes I read the previous article pg 12 . and the link you have provided above and so it seems that in 2012 the rules were changed  even though his annuity was taken in 2008.  Whats the point of protecting anything??? 
Prior to 2012 the APP schmes had to provide as least what an individual would have got if they had been contracted in.  If we hadnt had that assurance why would we choose to gamble?  I know the adviser told us that it would always pay the same as the SERPS.
Infact when he died he hadnt even been paid half the value and no they didnt give me a lump sum just £224 per annum for a couple of years. I dont know where they dreamt up the £224 it was about 1/5th of his pension.
I feel cheated now that I have reached pension age and Im not getting what I thought I would be due
I

xylophone

Prior to 2012 the APP schmes had to provide as least what an individual would have got if they had been contracted in.  If we hadnt had that assurance why would we choose to gamble?  

Appropriate Personal Pension?

The statement above is not correct.

See and read through

https://techzone.abrdn.com/public/pensions/Tech-guide-contracting-out

A COSR ( and COMB)  1978-97  had to offer a GMP.  An APP didn't.

"Protected Rights" simply restricted the use of that part of a personal pension that arose from the contracted out rebate.

The amount of the pension that was "protected rights" just like the "non-protected rights" would depend on how the investments within the pension wrapper had performed over the investment period.

jamesd

Because he'd already bought the annuity the rules change in 2012 should have made no difference. I expect them to pay the full annuity amount for the five years from purchase guarantee period then to cut to an ongoing 50% for you.

It is possible to offer a lump sum instead of continuing to pay. That might be twenty to forty times the ongoing payment you were due to get. They would need your agreement to do this.

xylophone

That might be the spectre to be twenty to forty times the ongoing payment you were due to get. They would need your agreement to do this.

Ghost of a chance? 

The OP has stated 

no they didnt give me a lump sum just £224 per annum for a couple of years. I dont know where they dreamt up the £224 it was about 1/5th of his pension.

The OP might still have some paperwork relating to this policy which would explain the above - otherwise she could contact Phoenix but after ten years it might be difficult to get an explanation.

xylophone

And incidentally, OP, you state

His contributions were 1998 -1997 

My husband paid into this 2nd pension between 1987 - 1999 

Do you mean 1988 - 97? Contracting out into an APP  became possible from 1988.