Economy 7 and Octopus Agile

futureself

Can anyone help here cos I'm confused.  I'm an Octopus customer and I've just seen the Agile account.  Is it worth me swapping to the Agile account as I'm on economy 7.  All my storage heaters and water start storing from around 00.30 for 7 hours. 

Newbie_John

Hard to tell, as Agile is very unknown.

The prices at night tend to be much cheaper so that could work for you well.
But then prices 4-8pm tend to be higher so really depends how much energy your storage heaters take later during the day.

You can leave agile anytime.
So switch onto Agile, and calculate weekly costs to see how much it would have cost you on E7 tariff and if you're unhappy switch back.

futureself

I leave for work at 7am and I dont get home until around 20.30.  I have 2 storage heaters running now from 05.30 - 0700 and from 20.00- 23.00.  I do all my washing at night using the timer on the washing machine.

MultiFuelBurner

Download the octopus compare app(android), supply the connection to your octopus account and it will show you what it would have costed on Agile you can then compare that to your E7 bills

Presuming you have a smart meter and it is sending readings every 30 mins.

QrizB

futureself said:

Can anyone help here cos I'm confused.  I'm an Octopus customer and I've just seen the Agile account.  Is it worth me swapping to the Agile account as I'm on economy 7.  All my storage heaters and water start storing from around 00.30 for 7 hours. 

In my region, Fexible Octopus E7 is around 15p/kWh off-peak, 35p/kWh peak.

Over the last year, Agile has averaged somewhat more than that during your off-peak period, but has been cheaper at other times.

Will the next year be like the last one? I don't know, but going into winter on E7 might not be the best time to chance it.

Of course, if you feel lucky (and can afford whatever it ends up costing) you can choose to give it a go. You can always switch back from Agile to Flexible if it doesn't work out.

Newbie_John

MultiFuelBurner said:

Download the octopus compare app(android), supply the connection to your octopus account and it will show you what it would have costed on Agile you can then compare that to your E7 bills

Presuming you have a smart meter and it is sending readings every 30 mins.

Thanks for that, just found out that I would have been £20 better of on Agile in October and that's without shifting anything towards the night. Good app 

mmmmikey

Newbie_John said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Download the octopus compare app(android), supply the connection to your octopus account and it will show you what it would have costed on Agile you can then compare that to your E7 bills

Presuming you have a smart meter and it is sending readings every 30 mins.

Thanks for that, just found out that I would have been £20 better of on Agile in October and that's without shifting anything towards the night. Good app 

Hi - just a word of caution - October was a "weird" Agile month with a mixture of unusually high and unusually low prices in quick succession. So it would be a good idea to look at a few more months before you conclude anything....

Scot_39

1) How are your HW and NSH switched / controlled ?

You would need to check exactly how your hot water and storage heaters are currently switched.

As if rely on the meter (an ALCS meter to do that timed switching of off-peak supply) what Octopus would do - if anything - to your meter load switching times - not just immediately, but on any future plan changes and of course meter changes.

IIRC there was a post here - that suggested his actual meter switching times were left as was when switched tariffs with Octopus - but not sure that was to agile (I'd need to search forum and that's a pain on my phone).

 

There may have been other posts on this issue too in the past.

But with other suppliers - likes of Economy 7 normally uses meter banded fixed time of use billing - smart or otherwise - as a general rule.

Octopus more flexible smart tariffs - like their EV and Agile - I believe use Smart meter only 1/2 hour usage data - so you would need a Smart meter - and apply the dynamic rates - to those slots.  If you are not already Smart - you will need an upgrade for Agile - and not sure whether they would fit standard or a five port ALCS if your heating requires it.

2) Agile vs E7 Pricing

E7 has Ofgem cap pricing "certainty" (well for 3 months at a time) - and you can fix prices now on E7 with many suppliers for at least a year (some as long as 3 iirc).

Agile currently has iirc only Octopus's £1 unit rate cap - and the peak rates (c6pm) have gotten high - 60p+ on some days of late c.f. summer time - and it hit that last Dec iirc (well £1.00-17.xp EPG discount).

Check out the latest agile 1/2 hourly pricing - and historic - at sites like

https://energy-stats.uk/

which defaults lots of stats to last 12 months -e.g.

https://energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-east-midlands/

You can look at non annual averages (the default on above) by using the configurable data dashobard that site provides - e.g. since July 1st and no EPG

https://dashboards.energy-stats.uk/d/5cZqqmf4z/user-dashboard?orgId=1&from=1688166000000&to=now

Or last month (current cap period to compare with curent rates)

https://dashboards.energy-stats.uk/d/5cZqqmf4z/user-dashboard?orgId=1&from=1696114800000&to=1698883199000

Or last 7 days etc

https://dashboards.energy-stats.uk/d/5cZqqmf4z/user-dashboard?orgId=1&from=now-7d&to=now

Now entering winter - and bearing in mind - in it's current form - we haven't really seen agile's true pricing over a full winter (i.e. without EPG discount pricing that lasted until July 1st cap change) - now might be a time to think more carefuly about balance of pricing - and your time of your use vs it's peak slots.

For many without electric heating (storage heating) who use power in the peak slots (4-7pm averaging over 40p/kWh in last month set, over 43p in last 7 day set for EM etc) make agile (1/2 hrly wholseale link) vs tracker (daily) a more difficult choice.

But with electrical heating on conventional e7 time slots - that should easily bias use to overnight slots once heatig goes on in earnest - but you still need to weigh up that likely mix - weighted by guessing consumtion and the likely slot costs.  Which can be very variable day to day - wind - or rather low wind - etc has a big impact on daily agile pricing - and low wind during a cold snap combined - was largely to blame for last Dec quadrouppling in prices.

And when doing so need to beware - not all E7 window slots beat conventional E7 off-peak tariffs - in some time frames - like the Oct above.

And you would need to monitor the average charge rate carefully - weighted for you use profile - not simply over time - against a conventional tariff.  And if like mine - your NSH are finished charging in the 1st 1-2 hrs of time slot - then you need to look at those hours in particular - not the on those graphs cheaper rates later in morning. 

Or the higher rates late in other's time slots - if still charging - like the c20p aver at 6am slot in Oct in EM.  Or if getting up early for the family showers before it cuts out at 7:30 etc.

In summary - I would have suggested joining agile - at spring (under EPG) and summers much lower cf Ofgem/EPG cap pricing agile - has been a pretty clear winner for many - especially those able to shift heavy usage out of that 4-7 time period - and probbly not so clear now.  

And unlike those on it for a while - you won't have the "summer" savings "banked" to run across any shock peaks (like say Dec 22 - when the peak rates did hit c82p - Octopus's £1 - 17.xp EPG discount iirc)

It's not much of a risk - you can get off agile fairly easily iirc - but that means you would have to monitor - and do your sums regularly.

3) Truly Flexible Time of Use StorageCharging

There is one user here who is using agile - but doing his own automated HW etc device switching - not relying on meter switching any more - to make use of the low cost slots.

4) Future for NSH / E7 ?

Maybe will be variable time of use - saw a general press release BG recently announced a deal for those with Dimplex quantum RF NSH controlled by hubs.  Sadly devoid of any detail - on pricing or operation.

The Ovo and iirc EDF trials - with Dimplex and variable charging control - c4 years ago iirc - seemed to go pretty dead.

Newbie_John

mmmmikey said:

Newbie_John said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Download the octopus compare app(android), supply the connection to your octopus account and it will show you what it would have costed on Agile you can then compare that to your E7 bills

Presuming you have a smart meter and it is sending readings every 30 mins.

Thanks for that, just found out that I would have been £20 better of on Agile in October and that's without shifting anything towards the night. Good app 

Hi - just a word of caution - October was a "weird" Agile month with a mixture of unusually high and unusually low prices in quick succession. So it would be a good idea to look at a few more months before you conclude anything....

It was a good move, £70 saved in November, and £120 in December :-)
Although hard to compare as I wouldn't really have 24*C at home on certain negative pricing times.

Anyway, will stick to it for foreseeable future at least till the "saved buffer" runs out.

worlestone

I've just found this thread, surprised I've not come across it before! We're with Octopus on Loyal Octopus on E7 with storage heaters and wondering whether Agile would be a good move, it looked a bit of a gamble, but this thread has helped. So maybe worth a punt and see what happens!

bob2302

mmmmikey said:

Newbie_John said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Download the octopus compare app(android), supply the connection to your octopus account and it will show you what it would have costed on Agile you can then compare that to your E7 bills

Presuming you have a smart meter and it is sending readings every 30 mins.

Thanks for that, just found out that I would have been £20 better of on Agile in October and that's without shifting anything towards the night. Good app 

Hi - just a word of caution - October was a "weird" Agile month with a mixture of unusually high and unusually low prices in quick succession. So it would be a good idea to look at a few more months before you conclude anything....

I don't think the lows were particular low or unusual. October has been a relatively expensive month for me.