Teacher's Pensions and widow's pension

Yorkie1

Many months on, I unfortunately need to resurrect this thread again.

I have now got full P60s for pension and annuity income in TY 2022-23 and TY2023-24 (not th SP, of course).

Teacher's Pensions have provided a letter confirming how the widow's pension arrears, relating to June 2022 - October 2023, and paid on 10 Nov 2023, were split between those two tax years.

Mum has now received a letter from HMRC asking her to pay over £1K extra tax for TY 2023-24 by the end of January 2025.

We have just been on the phone to HMRC, initially with the income tax team who then put us through to the simple assessment team. They have said that HMRC can't amend figures and apportion them back to the correct tax year, and that TP have to "do something" (she was unclear what) to submit amended paperwork back to HMRC, to change the figures for each of the two tax years. That was the only way to rectify the situation.

Any thoughts on next steps, please?

Do we write to HMRC as shown in the link to EIM75020 (if so, is there a particular department / address we should contact), or do we need to go back to Teachers' Pensions to ask them to adjust figures for two tax years?

I must say that given the EIM link helpfully provided previously, I am not convinced by the advisor we spoke to; unfortunately I didn't have the ink open to me at the time, or perhaps I wasn't using the key terminology, or perhaps I wasn't speaking to the right team there in the first place ... 

Obviously, if we can't get it sorted out by mid-Jan we will pay the tax to avoid further issues, but hopefully it can be resolved one way or another before then!

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Yorkie1 said:

Many months on, I unfortunately need to resurrect this thread again.

I have now got full P60s for pension and annuity income in TY 2022-23 and TY2023-24 (not th SP, of course).

Teacher's Pensions have provided a letter confirming how the widow's pension arrears, relating to June 2022 - October 2023, and paid on 10 Nov 2023, were split between those two tax years.

Mum has now received a letter from HMRC asking her to pay over £1K extra tax for TY 2023-24 by the end of January 2025.

We have just been on the phone to HMRC, initially with the income tax team who then put us through to the simple assessment team. They have said that HMRC can't amend figures and apportion them back to the correct tax year, and that TP have to "do something" (she was unclear what) to submit amended paperwork back to HMRC, to change the figures for each of the two tax years. That was the only way to rectify the situation.

Any thoughts on next steps, please?

Do we write to HMRC as shown in the link to EIM75020 (if so, is there a particular department / address we should contact), or do we need to go back to Teachers' Pensions to ask them to adjust figures for two tax years?

I must say that given the EIM link helpfully provided previously, I am not convinced by the advisor we spoke to; unfortunately I didn't have the ink open to me at the time, or perhaps I wasn't using the key terminology, or perhaps I wasn't speaking to the right team there in the first place ... 

Obviously, if we can't get it sorted out by mid-Jan we will pay the tax to avoid further issues, but hopefully it can be resolved one way or another before then!

I haven't read the whole thread again but why do you think the pension company needs to do anything?  Did they report something factually incorrect?

HMRC are the only people who can change this, and in this particular situation I think that process starts with a written request from your mum.  Following they HMRC guidance you are already aware of.

molerat

The pension provider cannot change how the apportionment is reported to HMRC but they can inform you in writing and you pass that information on to HMRC.  No particular dept, just usual front desk stuff. Sounds like HMRC are doing their usual uninformed unhelpful act.

Yorkie1

Thank you both. Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Yorkie1 said:

Many months on, I unfortunately need to resurrect this thread again.

I have now got full P60s for pension and annuity income in TY 2022-23 and TY2023-24 (not th SP, of course).

Teacher's Pensions have provided a letter confirming how the widow's pension arrears, relating to June 2022 - October 2023, and paid on 10 Nov 2023, were split between those two tax years.

Mum has now received a letter from HMRC asking her to pay over £1K extra tax for TY 2023-24 by the end of January 2025.

We have just been on the phone to HMRC, initially with the income tax team who then put us through to the simple assessment team. They have said that HMRC can't amend figures and apportion them back to the correct tax year, and that TP have to "do something" (she was unclear what) to submit amended paperwork back to HMRC, to change the figures for each of the two tax years. That was the only way to rectify the situation.

Any thoughts on next steps, please?

Do we write to HMRC as shown in the link to EIM75020 (if so, is there a particular department / address we should contact), or do we need to go back to Teachers' Pensions to ask them to adjust figures for two tax years?

I must say that given the EIM link helpfully provided previously, I am not convinced by the advisor we spoke to; unfortunately I didn't have the ink open to me at the time, or perhaps I wasn't using the key terminology, or perhaps I wasn't speaking to the right team there in the first place ... 

Obviously, if we can't get it sorted out by mid-Jan we will pay the tax to avoid further issues, but hopefully it can be resolved one way or another before then!

I haven't read the whole thread again but why do you think the pension company needs to do anything?  Did they report something factually incorrect?

HMRC are the only people who can change this, and in this particular situation I think that process starts with a written request from your mum.  Following they HMRC guidance you are already aware of.

As far as I can tell, the pension firm have reported accurately that £38K was the total amount paid to mum in TY 2023-24.

It's just that it included the arrears from the previous tax year too. It's HMRC who say that the pension firm need to edit their figures to show the tax years that the income related to. Which is at odds with the link.

Yes, I think a request to HMRC will have to be the next step. 

Sarahspangles

You said earlier 

Teacher's Pensions have provided a letter confirming how the widow's pension arrears, relating to June 2022 - October 2023, and paid on 10 Nov 2023, were split between those two tax years.

Isn’t that all you need for HMRC to recalculate?

Yorkie1

molerat said:

The pension provider cannot change how the apportionment is reported to HMRC but they can inform you in writing and you pass that information on to HMRC.  No particular dept, just usual front desk stuff. Sounds like HMRC are doing their usual uninformed unhelpful act.

Thank you too. I agree with the bold comment!

I shall draft the letter and get it sent off.

Does this look like the right address?
Pay As You Earn and Self Assessment
HM Revenue and Customs
BX9 1AS
United Kingdom

Yorkie1

Sarahspangles said:

You said earlier 

Teacher's Pensions have provided a letter confirming how the widow's pension arrears, relating to June 2022 - October 2023, and paid on 10 Nov 2023, were split between those two tax years.

Isn’t that all you need for HMRC to recalculate?

Hopefully yes, particularly given the confirmation from others this evening. Fingers crossed ...

MetaPhysical

Gosh, I've just read your thread.   These matters are inordinately complex for older people.  What if your mum didn't have you to  be helping her sort this mess out?😳  UK income tax complexity really does need sorting out!

I am in receipt of a widower's pension.  "Fortunately" for me, my late wife was still an active contributor to the TP fund until she died in December 2013 and so I am "fortunate" to get the widower's pension for life when I remarry in 2026, even though I am [currently] a higher rate tax payer.  I'll drop to be a basic rate tax payer when I retire that same year.