How does HMRC know our savings amounts?

masonic

Brie said:

Do banks ask for DoB when opening accounts?  Again - like the NINo - I don't think I've ever been asked.

I don't think I've ever not been asked. I would be very suspicious when applying for a product if I wasn't asked, as I believe it's a regulatory requirement for the provider as part of KYC.

Just taking the current MSE best buy easy access accounts, who would let me peek into their application forms...

Brie

eskbanker said:

Brie said:

Do banks ask for DoB when opening accounts?  Again - like the NINo - I don't think I've ever been asked.  Some accounts I've had for decades so well before current regs, others have been added to existing accounts more recently so no ID required.  Possible that some banks will have an old address for someone.

Even if they haven't always asked for DoB, that's only going to be needed for data matching if there are two taxpayers of the same name living at the same address, which is going to be something of an edge case - no data matching algorithms are ever going to be 100% bulletproof, and likewise there will be keying errors and so on to contend with too, but if the matching is 99+% accurate then the amount of exception handling isn't going to be particularly onerous when compared with the alternatives....

Brie said:

The whole thing sounds very complex and makes me wonder if the foreign system of requiring everyone to submit a tax return would actually be more practical.  

Not sure how mandatory tax returns would address data matching issues, and they'd obviously cause a massive incremental workload for HMRC, given that less than 40% of taxpayers are currently required to submit them?

fyi - I've a reasonably unique name so have no doubt HMRC could track me down easily enough if they wanted to.  People I knew decades back in other countries have tracked me via facebook so it should be a dawdle even without the DoB & NINo really.  But for the John Smiths of this country things will be more complicated of course.

And fyi - mandatory tax returns are simple enough in that the bank would send me a tax receipt and I would submit that as part of my return along with info from my employer (P60 essentially) plus charitable donation receipts, medical receipts, education receipts etc......  (so looking forward to doing this again after 30+ years in a few months....)

Albermarle

eskbanker said:

Brie said:

Do banks ask for DoB when opening accounts?  Again - like the NINo - I don't think I've ever been asked.  Some accounts I've had for decades so well before current regs, others have been added to existing accounts more recently so no ID required.  Possible that some banks will have an old address for someone.

Even if they haven't always asked for DoB, that's only going to be needed for data matching if there are two taxpayers of the same name living at the same address, which is going to be something of an edge case - no data matching algorithms are ever going to be 100% bulletproof, and likewise there will be keying errors and so on to contend with too, but if the matching is 99+% accurate then the amount of exception handling isn't going to be particularly onerous when compared with the alternatives....

Brie said:

The whole thing sounds very complex and makes me wonder if the foreign system of requiring everyone to submit a tax return would actually be more practical.  

Not sure how mandatory tax returns would address data matching issues, and they'd obviously cause a massive incremental workload for HMRC, given that less than 40% of taxpayers are currently required to submit them?

Also AIUI, HMRC are trying to reduce the number of taxpayers having to fill in SA, and/or discouraging/stopping those who historically fill them in, but technically do not have to do so anymore.

RG2015

WBCPB said:

Apparently it is all done through "Connect"
https://www.ft.com/content/0640f6ac-5ce9-11e7-9bc8-8055f264aa8b

It’s a shame that even with all this data it takes HMRC three years to get my correct state pension information from DWP.

Nardy

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Brie said:

How can they report it if they don't have your NI?  I've never been asked for mine for opening an account.

Oddly the NINO.

"NINO", what a brilliant abbreviation, have you just invented it?

RG2015

Nardy said:

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Brie said:

How can they report it if they don't have your NI?  I've never been asked for mine for opening an account.

Oddly the NINO.

"NINO", what a brilliant abbreviation, have you just invented it?

The Googling it. It’s been around for years.

I believe it may also be used as a payment reference in online banking. Unless that was something I set up several years ago for my voluntary National Insurance payments.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7f16a9e5274a2e87db3b96/nino-staff-guide-intro.pdf

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/getting-a-national-insurance-number/

eskbanker

Brie said:

eskbanker said:

Brie said:

Do banks ask for DoB when opening accounts?  Again - like the NINo - I don't think I've ever been asked.  Some accounts I've had for decades so well before current regs, others have been added to existing accounts more recently so no ID required.  Possible that some banks will have an old address for someone.

Even if they haven't always asked for DoB, that's only going to be needed for data matching if there are two taxpayers of the same name living at the same address, which is going to be something of an edge case - no data matching algorithms are ever going to be 100% bulletproof, and likewise there will be keying errors and so on to contend with too, but if the matching is 99+% accurate then the amount of exception handling isn't going to be particularly onerous when compared with the alternatives....

fyi - I've a reasonably unique name so have no doubt HMRC could track me down easily enough if they wanted to.  People I knew decades back in other countries have tracked me via facebook so it should be a dawdle even without the DoB & NINo really.  But for the John Smiths of this country things will be more complicated of course.

Not sure if we're talking at cross purposes but the fact remains that even if there were data submissions from banks without dates of birth, they would still have name and address, so DoB is only needed as a differentiator where there are multiple people with the same name at the same address.

Brie said:

eskbanker said:

Brie said:

The whole thing sounds very complex and makes me wonder if the foreign system of requiring everyone to submit a tax return would actually be more practical.  

Not sure how mandatory tax returns would address data matching issues, and they'd obviously cause a massive incremental workload for HMRC, given that less than 40% of taxpayers are currently required to submit them?

And fyi - mandatory tax returns are simple enough in that the bank would send me a tax receipt and I would submit that as part of my return along with info from my employer (P60 essentially) plus charitable donation receipts, medical receipts, education receipts etc......  (so looking forward to doing this again after 30+ years in a few months....)

Again, that's not the point being made - mandatory returns might indeed be relatively simple for the submitter but the point was that they'd create significantly more work for HMRC for little obvious benefit, and it's still unclear exactly how that would simplify data matching if DoB was missing?

masonic

Mandatory tax returns for everyone is a complete non-starter. It would be less popular than poll tax.

Aminatidi

I just want a simpler tax system.

I don't want to have to think or care too much about savings v investments and what exact combination of stuff or transactions outside of wrappers might mean I have to complete a tax return that I don't even know I need to complete.

No issue with paying tax I'd just sooner it was taken in a similar manner to PAYE rather than some nagging doubt I'll miss/overlook something through ignorance of an overly complicated system.

Barkin

Brie said:

eskbanker said:

Brie said:

Do banks ask for DoB when opening accounts?  Again - like the NINo - I don't think I've ever been asked.  Some accounts I've had for decades so well before current regs, others have been added to existing accounts more recently so no ID required.  Possible that some banks will have an old address for someone.

Even if they haven't always asked for DoB, that's only going to be needed for data matching if there are two taxpayers of the same name living at the same address, which is going to be something of an edge case - no data matching algorithms are ever going to be 100% bulletproof, and likewise there will be keying errors and so on to contend with too, but if the matching is 99+% accurate then the amount of exception handling isn't going to be particularly onerous when compared with the alternatives....

Brie said:

The whole thing sounds very complex and makes me wonder if the foreign system of requiring everyone to submit a tax return would actually be more practical.  

Not sure how mandatory tax returns would address data matching issues, and they'd obviously cause a massive incremental workload for HMRC, given that less than 40% of taxpayers are currently required to submit them?

And fyi - mandatory tax returns are simple enough in that the bank would send me a tax receipt and I would submit that as part of my return

Given that banks etc currently do that on my behalf, so no need for me to get involved, I'm struggling to see how that would make things easier for me...