Planning ahead for an intestate estate

Daniel54

My 98 year old uncle declines to write a will.He has no surviving spouse and no children.On the property value alone the estate will be in IHT territory.He has one surviving sibling and nine nephews and nieces,of which I am the oldest

He is in many ways very private although keeps in close touch with his family - it is an area we hesitate to tread on as he is is fully compos mentis and we have to respect his decision.My own guess is that he would not be unhappy with the distribution of his estate per intestacy rules

We would  all like him to to grant a POA to at least one of us but this seems unlikely.

I was talking recently with one of my cousins and we realised we did not know how responsibility would lie in the event of his death.I read that it should first fall to his surviving sibling,but she is 94 and lives offshore.

All of this is a long-winded way of seeking some advice,mainly practical,on how we should plan for the inevitable.Where would responsibility lie ( or be allocated) when dealing with immediate matters such as bank accounts ,utilities and empty house insurance ,for instance,then ultimately the probate application and estate administration

Many thanks in advance





 

Brie

Think the rules say sibling gets all.  If the sibling is gone first then things would be shared amongst the nephews and nieces.  

Who actually does the running about  - I don't know.  That in itself would be a good reason for Uncle to get something in writing.  A will would be best - so there's someone in charge of dealing with things - but even a letter of intent would be helpful so that funeral arrangements might be made in a suitable fashion plus things like a DNR was documented in some way.  

Could it be gently pointed out that without things made official ££ will likely go out of the family to pay for things and things will be done that may be contrary to his wishes.  

mebu60

Would he respond to an unemotional approach around easing the admin burden (on his sibling)? If you or other nephews/nieces willing to be executor(s) could say save on solicitors' fees if that's one of the reasons he's anti-will (though nothing to stop executor(s) appointing sols to do the legwork, has the advantage executor(s) is/are then the client(s). Ditto re at least a finance LPA. Would a quiet one-on-one conversation with no pressure work with him? If all else fails, plead and beg him to make things easier for you all! It would be helpful if he says what his reason is for not having will. If you can entice that out of him you may be able to mitigate his fears. Good luck! 

RAS

Daniel, the law may be slightly different depending on which part of the UK your uncle lives in. Would help if you tell us.

Check www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will/y for the decision tree

If it's England and Wales, the estate will be divided equally between any full siblings, with the share of any who deceased being shared equally by their blood children (the nephews and nieces).

Nieces and nephews may be able to apply for probate in this situation, so I'd suggest a couple of them who are trusted get on with it before one who is a bit dodgy takes over. If necessary ask the sister to write renouncing her right to administer the estate.

Can anyone ask uncle why sort of funeral he wants? He might want something religious, or want it secular? Fuss or no fuss? Even if he lasts another decade, it helps to have an idea.

Daniel54

Brie said:

Think the rules say sibling gets all.  If the sibling is gone first then things would be shared amongst the nephews and nieces.  

Who actually does the running about  - I don't know.  That in itself would be a good reason for Uncle to get something in writing.  A will would be best - so there's someone in charge of dealing with things - but even a letter of intent would be helpful so that funeral arrangements might be made in a suitable fashion plus things like a DNR was documented in some way.  

Could it be gently pointed out that without things made official ££ will likely go out of the family to pay for things and things will be done that may be contrary to his wishes.  

Thanks for your response

In terms of the financial inheritance,this would be split three ways between his surviving sibling and the immediate surviving descendants of his two  deceased siblings,of which I am one.

Funeral arrangements fall to next of kin and i'm sure we will be able to sort that out.He marked the passing of his wife completely privately and doubt he has any particular views on his own funeral.

My concern is the running about.If it comes my way then so be it,but I would like to know the practicalities as there is potentially an awful lot of work involved.

Brie

One of you could play the heavy and read him the riot act.  Tell him he's a selfish so and so etc.  What's the worst that could happen?  You'd get cut out of the will??  Well that could be handled after the fact if necessary.

I'm not talking about being incredibly mean and scaring him into having a heart attack or something.  But just a strong chat about how it's unfair on all of you when it would just take a small effort from him.  If he and his sibling are in their 90s my guess is that you and the others are likely pensionable age as well.  Surely he'd understand making it easier on you and the rest?

Remind him that November is "free will" month.  That might help.

Daniel54

RAS said:

Daniel, the law may be slightly different depending on which part of the UK your uncle lives in. Would help if you tell us.

Check www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will/y for the decision tree

If it's England and Wales, the estate will be divided equally between any full siblings, with the share of any who deceased being shared equally by their blood children (the nephews and nieces).

Nieces and nephews may be able to apply for probate in this situation, so I'd suggest a couple of them who are trusted get on with it before one who is a bit dodgy takes over. If necessary ask the sister to write renouncing her right to administer the estate.

Can anyone ask uncle why sort of funeral he wants? He might want something religious, or want it secular? Fuss or no fuss? Even if he lasts another decade, it helps to have an idea.

Thanks for your reply which crossed with mine to Brie.

We are in England and fortunately we are looking to the future for my uncle's demise.

There are no dodgy cousins out there .We/I  are just thinking to establish how to proceed when he passes.

I suspect I might be asked by my cousins to deal with the estate,which is a burden i would accept if need be,but wish to have my eyes open,being 13 months into a gruelling executorship 

maman

Would he respond to 'Please think again about a will because otherwise it would be a lot of work for Aunty to deal with your estate and really difficult anyway as she's out of the country'. 🤔

Daniel54

maman said:

Would he respond to 'Please think again about a will because otherwise it would be a lot of work for Aunty to deal with your estate and really difficult anyway as she's out of the country'. 🤔

Having got to 98 I doubt it.However my lines of approach will be to check that he is happy with the way intestacy follows bloodline, and to suggest that he leaves a lot of work to those dealing with his estate without a will.

But as I said in my OP these are his decisions.As far as I am concerned he can leave his money to the cat home,but if he did so I would not take on the responsibility  of dealing with the estate

BooJewels

My aunt, who subsequently passed earlier this year, had a will that my sister and I knew had issues and we wanted to try and persuade her to revisit it without letting on to her that we knew what the current one said - we'd only found out inadvertently when a copy of it got left in with some papers she'd given us for something else.  The main concern was that from 3 named executors, only my sister remained.

Luckily, my MIL decided to re-write her own will around that time for the same reason - her only executer had died.  So this presented us with an ideal opportunity to anecdotally tell her about this over a brew one afternoon and go on about how hard it was for a single executor to manage and the pickle it would create if they were incapacitated etc.  As we were talking, she realised she only had one executor left herself, so dug her will out after we'd left and realised it was now wholly unsuitable (she rang me the next day and said "what on earth was I thinking"), so re-made it within a fortnight.  We didn't in any way want to influence what it said, but just wanted her to ensure she was happy with it and give her reason to look at it.  We didn't find out what the new one said until we had to.

Could you manufacture a similar anecdote to nonchalantly chat to him about that might set the seeds of an idea going in his mind - let him think it's his own idea.  Make up some story you've read on here about the family turmoil that can result from not having a will etc.  

As someone else mentioned, at 98 he's likely to be set in his ways and maybe finding out why he's resisting might give you an opportunity to explain things and steer him in the right direction.

Mojisola

Daniel54 said:

Having got to 98 I doubt it.However my lines of approach will be to check that he is happy with the way intestacy follows bloodline, and to suggest that he leaves a lot of work to those dealing with his estate without a will.

But as I said in my OP these are his decisions. As far as I am concerned he can leave his money to the cat home,but if he did so I would not take on the responsibility  of dealing with the estate

An intestate estate wouldn't really be any more work than with a will - all the same information would have to be collected.

The difference with a will is that he can choose who will be the person who goes through all his personal possessions and paperwork - as a private person, he may have a preference who that will be.