Advice regarding possession notice

GDB2222

Is there any evidence the deposit has been protected?

I suggest not paying any rent to the overseas landlord, but put it to one side. Rent arrears  is the least of your son's worries. If your son's LL doesn't have a chitty from HMRC, then your son shouldn't be paying him gross anyway. 

Look around for a new property, and move ASAP. 

WispyMisty

GDB2222 said:

Is there any evidence the deposit has been protected?

I suggest not paying any rent to the overseas landlord, but put it to one side. Rent arrears  is the least of your son's worries. If your son's LL doesn't have a chitty from HMRC, then your son shouldn't be paying him gross anyway. 

Look around for a new property, and move ASAP. 

Thank you for such a quick response.

 As far as we know the deposit is protected but my son is double checking with the agent as mid-way through the tenancy the LL dispatched with the agents services - we hope that it is still in the deposit protection scheme . As the rent is next due on Monday there would be three payments before they need to move and keeping to one side would obviously help with moving expenses.

And yes they are beginning to look already as they don't want to end up with something unsuitable if they run out of time

pinkshoes

You can check with the deposit schemes online to see if it has been protected.

I'd second not paying the rent but instead putting it aside until you are sure it is going to the correct person as well as potentially covering the deposit if it hasn't been  protected.

WispyMisty

pinkshoes said:

You can check with the deposit schemes online to see if it has been protected.

I'd second not paying the rent but instead putting it aside until you are sure it is going to the correct person as well as potentially covering the deposit if it hasn't been  protected.

Thank you - is it easy to find out about the deposit scheme? ie if I do an online search will it lead me to the correct site to check? Don't want to end up going round in pointless circles as already incredibly stressed out.

GDB2222

"I have an update to this situation - the landlord (who lives abroad) is quoting a lot of US and Aus case law saying that the mortgage deed is not legal so he just stopped paying !

He has told my son not to worry, he's protected blah blah blah - and yet as to be expected there have now been 2 Court notices - a Warrant of Control and an Eviction Notice dated for 7th December."

It does sound like the LL is out of touch with reality. I assume the mortgage interest rate went up, and the LL couldn't afford to pay, so found a specious argument not to pay. 

In the same vein, I would dream up some excuse for not paying rent to the LL, for example that he has reneged on the tenancy agreement. At the very least, your son will have additional moving expenses that he didn't expect. Plus, rents have gone up, and he may have to pay more in the new place. All good excuses for withholding rent for the time being. 

It would be worth asking the agent whether they have somewhere else to rent. 

WispyMisty

GDB2222 said:

"I have an update to this situation - the landlord (who lives abroad) is quoting a lot of US and Aus case law saying that the mortgage deed is not legal so he just stopped paying !

He has told my son not to worry, he's protected blah blah blah - and yet as to be expected there have now been 2 Court notices - a Warrant of Control and an Eviction Notice dated for 7th December."

It does sound like the LL is out of touch with reality. I assume the mortgage interest rate went up, and the LL couldn't afford to pay, so found a specious argument not to pay. 

In the same vein, I would dream up some excuse for not paying rent to the LL, for example that he has reneged on the tenancy agreement. At the very least, your son will have additional moving expenses that he didn't expect. Plus, rents have gone up, and he may have to pay more in the new place. All good excuses for withholding rent for the time being. 

It would be worth asking the agent whether they have somewhere else to rent. 

Exactly - I think it's something exactly along those lines - and quite hypocritical of him to accept rent but state the mortgage payments are fraud - definitely feel my son's family will be better off out once they've found the right property.

GDB2222

WispyMisty said:

GDB2222 said:

"I have an update to this situation - the landlord (who lives abroad) is quoting a lot of US and Aus case law saying that the mortgage deed is not legal so he just stopped paying !

He has told my son not to worry, he's protected blah blah blah - and yet as to be expected there have now been 2 Court notices - a Warrant of Control and an Eviction Notice dated for 7th December."

It does sound like the LL is out of touch with reality. I assume the mortgage interest rate went up, and the LL couldn't afford to pay, so found a specious argument not to pay. 

In the same vein, I would dream up some excuse for not paying rent to the LL, for example that he has reneged on the tenancy agreement. At the very least, your son will have additional moving expenses that he didn't expect. Plus, rents have gone up, and he may have to pay more in the new place. All good excuses for withholding rent for the time being. 

It would be worth asking the agent whether they have somewhere else to rent. 

Exactly - I think it's something exactly along those lines - and quite hypocritical of him to accept rent but state the mortgage payments are fraud - definitely feel my son's family will be better off out once they've found the right property.

You'd better clear out your spare room, because the rental market is very tight at the moment. 

WispyMisty

GDB2222 said:

WispyMisty said:

GDB2222 said:

"I have an update to this situation - the landlord (who lives abroad) is quoting a lot of US and Aus case law saying that the mortgage deed is not legal so he just stopped paying !

He has told my son not to worry, he's protected blah blah blah - and yet as to be expected there have now been 2 Court notices - a Warrant of Control and an Eviction Notice dated for 7th December."

It does sound like the LL is out of touch with reality. I assume the mortgage interest rate went up, and the LL couldn't afford to pay, so found a specious argument not to pay. 

In the same vein, I would dream up some excuse for not paying rent to the LL, for example that he has reneged on the tenancy agreement. At the very least, your son will have additional moving expenses that he didn't expect. Plus, rents have gone up, and he may have to pay more in the new place. All good excuses for withholding rent for the time being. 

It would be worth asking the agent whether they have somewhere else to rent. 

Exactly - I think it's something exactly along those lines - and quite hypocritical of him to accept rent but state the mortgage payments are fraud - definitely feel my son's family will be better off out once they've found the right property.

You'd better clear out your spare room, because the rental market is very tight at the moment. 

Actually we have just redecorated it after finally clearing his sister's bits and bobs!!

propertyrental

WispyMisty said:

I have an update to this situation - the landlord (who lives abroad) is quoting a lot of US and Aus case law saying that the mortgage deed is not legal so he just stopped paying !well obviously cr@ppage! LL will lose in (UK) court.

He has told my son not to worry, he's protected blah blah blah - and yet as to be expected there have now been 2 Court notices - a Warrant of Control and an Eviction Notice dated for 7th December. as expected

My son has now got them to suspend that eviction notice until end of Jan due to their young child and Christmas looming
Well done - was this agreed direct with the lender, or via the court?
 but the lender has said they don't want the rent paying to them (presumably so they don't legally become the lender's tenants?)
correct!
The lender also says there was no permission given for the tenancy. If true (and they are unlikely to be wrong), then they can gain possession and the T's only protection is the 2 months via the Mortgage Repossessions (Protection of Tenants etc) Act 2010

Does this mean that the lender now owns the property? I'm not sure of the precise legal position re ownership, but the Warrant of Control effectively gives the lender the rights of ownership.

Or is there still a chance for this to be overturned and the landlord retain the property? I think that horsehas bolted.....

So - rent ? What to do with it?  I'm minded for it to be put aside in a savings pot labelled 'rent' in case it gets asked for at a future date - but obviously don't want this to cause them any future problems.
Definitely do this. Do NOT pay it to the ex-landlord. Do NOT pay it to thelender, but DO keep it (as opposed to going on a xmas shopping spree!) in case you need to pay it in future.

...........................................................

WispyMisty said:

GDB2222 said:

Is there any evidence the deposit has been protected?

I suggest not paying any rent to the overseas landlord, but put it to one side. Rent arrears  is the least of your son's worries. If your son's LL doesn't have a chitty from HMRC, then your son shouldn't be paying him gross anyway. 

Look around for a new property, and move ASAP. 

 As far as we know the deposit is protected but my son is double checking with the agent as mid-way through the tenancy the LL dispatched with the agents services - ....

Don't check with the agents. Check direct with each deposit scheme. See

Post 3: Deposits: Payment, Protection and Return.

GDB2222 said:

.....

In the same vein, I would dream up some excuse for not paying rent to the LL, for example that he has reneged on the tenancy agreement. .....

I have to disagree. I would not engage with the LL at all. No need to email or contact. Just don't pay the rent.

If the LL is stupid enough to try taking action for rent arrears he will just dig another hole for himself.

But if you contact him with 'excuses' you will just end up with a back and forth argument  which will achieve nothing but stress, further requests for advice here about how to respond, and potentially might inadvertently say something on which the LL can later rely.

Silence is golden and less is more!

The lender has a Warrant of Control so that's who you deal with, and they don't want rent!

WispyMisty

propertyrental said:

WispyMisty said:

I have an update to this situation - the landlord (who lives abroad) is quoting a lot of US and Aus case law saying that the mortgage deed is not legal so he just stopped paying !well obviously cr@ppage! LL will lose in (UK) court.

He has told my son not to worry, he's protected blah blah blah - and yet as to be expected there have now been 2 Court notices - a Warrant of Control and an Eviction Notice dated for 7th December. as expected

My son has now got them to suspend that eviction notice until end of Jan due to their young child and Christmas looming
Well done - was this agreed direct with the lender, or via the court?
 but the lender has said they don't want the rent paying to them (presumably so they don't legally become the lender's tenants?)
correct!
The lender also says there was no permission given for the tenancy. If true (and they are unlikely to be wrong), then they can gain possession and the T's only protection is the 2 months via the Mortgage Repossessions (Protection of Tenants etc) Act 2010

Does this mean that the lender now owns the property? I'm not sure of the precise legal position re ownership, but the Warrant of Control effectively gives the lender the rights of ownership.

Or is there still a chance for this to be overturned and the landlord retain the property? I think that horsehas bolted.....

So - rent ? What to do with it?  I'm minded for it to be put aside in a savings pot labelled 'rent' in case it gets asked for at a future date - but obviously don't want this to cause them any future problems.
Definitely do this. Do NOT pay it to the ex-landlord. Do NOT pay it to thelender, but DO keep it (as opposed to going on a xmas shopping spree!) in case you need to pay it in future.

...........................................................

WispyMisty said:

GDB2222 said:

Is there any evidence the deposit has been protected?

I suggest not paying any rent to the overseas landlord, but put it to one side. Rent arrears  is the least of your son's worries. If your son's LL doesn't have a chitty from HMRC, then your son shouldn't be paying him gross anyway. 

Look around for a new property, and move ASAP. 

 As far as we know the deposit is protected but my son is double checking with the agent as mid-way through the tenancy the LL dispatched with the agents services - ....

Don't check with the agents. Check direct with each deposit scheme. See

Post 3: Deposits: Payment, Protection and Return.

GDB2222 said:

.....

In the same vein, I would dream up some excuse for not paying rent to the LL, for example that he has reneged on the tenancy agreement. .....

I have to disagree. I would not engage with the LL at all. No need to email or contact. Just don't pay the rent.

If the LL is stupid enough to try taking action for rent arrears he will just dig another hole for himself.

But if you contact him with 'excuses' you will just end up with a back and forth argument  which will achieve nothing but stress, further requests for advice here about how to respond, and potentially might inadvertently say something on which the LL can later rely.

Silence is golden and less is more!

The lender has a Warrant of Control so that's who you deal with, and they don't want rent!

Hi, thanks for your reply, much appreciated

My son has actually got a certificate number for his deposit, which he hadn't clarified before so can get on their website.

We suggested a one-off email to the LL (although I fully understand why you'd say not to contact them) and just said that the rent was being put in a separate holding account until the matter was fully resolved/clarified. LL responded that he understood that - that was a surprise (!) - but then went on to quote his previous bits about the warrant not being legal 🤦

But we feel by replying that he was happy for the rent to be held, he won't have a leg to stand on should he try and dispute over the deposit later.