Transferring PCN from partner to me

AlanMcGuffin

First post here. First ever PCN received. I’ve read the Newbies thread and scanned the forum for a similar question without any luck.

Car is registered in partners name. PCN received by them in the post. I had the car at the time of the incident. Very happy to fight the PCN but don’t want threatening letters turning up addressed to my partner (who will crack at some point and just pay it). How can I ensure they deal with me going forward without admitting I was driving? 

The form they include with the PCN has three options to select from for giving someone else’s name. One is that it was leased to someone else, one is that my partner was the keeper at the time but the car was in someone else’s possession, the other is directly stating the person you name in the form is the driver. 

The second option sounds right but I’ve got no idea what the various legal implications are (and frankly not sure what the difference is between keeper and registered keeper).

Do I even bother with this form or is there a boilerplate letter I can send? 

That’s the main question but I’d also be really grateful if someone who knows what they’re doing could quickly review the below to make sure I’ve got this right. The car park is an IPC member. They don’t mention POFA on the PCN. The incident was dated 20/09/23 and the letter sent by them on 18/10/23. They’ve got very grainy photos on ANPR of me entering the car park at 11:20 and leaving at 11:25 (not that you can make out the number plate from the photos). There are three lengthy, separate signs you need to read through in order to pay by the app they require you to download and register for. No T&Cs visible before entering the car park. I left to find alternative parking when realising what a pain it would be and now they’re charging me £100 for it.  

So the procedure should be:  

1. Get them to transfer their correspondence to me.

2. When they first contact me, reply with the template from the newbies thread.

3. Ignore all other correpondence until I get something through from the court. 

4. Then follow post 2 on the newbie thread. 

Have I got that right? 

Thanks

UncleThomasCobley

Welcome. you have obviously not read the Newbies/FAQ thread properly or just skim-read it. Especially if the NtK is non-PoFA, why would you want to throw away the best chance of this never getting to court? Aside from the fact that it is an IPC member which makes the Plan C option redundant, have you tried Plan A yet?

Which PPC? Anyone paying a penny into this scam should realise that they are wasting their money and just become a part of the problem. Identifying the driver is just throwing them under the bus when it would be easily defended if it ever moved on to Plan D.

There is little difference between a "keeper" and a "registered keeper". For example, if you hire/lease a car, the lessor/hire company are the "registered keeper" and you are the day to day "keeper".

As you state that the date. of the alleged contravention was 20/09/2023 and the NtK is dated 18/10/2023, even if they tried to use PoFA, it has failed and the "registered keeper" cannot be held liable for the charge. Only the driver and they have no idea who the driver is, unless your partner throws you under the bus.

Your partner (or you but in their name) should use the blue template appeal from the Newbies/FAQ thread to appeal as the RK. Do not make any inference as to who was the driver.

AlanMcGuffin

Thanks for that. I am in the process of doing Plan A but I was hoping to know the procedure for Plan B in advance.

Sending a letter of complaint and awaiting a reply may take longer than 14 days. If there is no way of having the letters addressed to me rather than my partner, without admitting some form of liability, the invoice will need to be paid to stop the campaign of harassment that is likely to follow. I'm happy enough laughing off threatening letters, but my partner is not and this will stress them out considerably. I would instead look to pay the reduced invoice amount from the PPC and save them from that. 

And I've had issues finding the land owner (now resolved thanks to eventually finding a thread in this forum). The landowner is a nearby pharmacy. I have no receipt as I didn't enter the shop. Anyway, I'm contacting them asap. 

The PPC is Manor Parking Ltd, car park is Lottie Road, Selly Oak. This is the thread I found from someone previously dealing with them at that car park where someone helpfully dug up the landowner. 
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6405271/parking-ticket/p1

UncleThomasCobley

AlanMcGuffin said:

I would instead look to pay the reduced invoice amount from the PPC and save them from that. 

I hope I can find your address. I will send some speculative invoices for £100 but with a bribe discount of £40 and wait for the money to roll in.

Why don't you point your partner to this forum for some reassurance? Remember, if you pay them a penny, they will mark you as a "mug" and at some point in the future, you will see them salivating at the prospect of getting you to part with more of your hard earned cash to fund their habit.

AlanMcGuffin

If those invoices you send out to “mugs” threaten their spouses with with an ongoing intimidation campaign and there’s no legal means of stopping you, then yes you might make some money.  

So anyway, send complaint letter, if nothing received by Day 14 (and this is already Day 6 from the date of issue meaning I need a turnaround time of 8 days on that, including the weekend), my options are

a) pay £60

b) gambling on the land owner cancelling the charge after this time but possibly end up paying £100

c) begin a course of action that would subject my partner to a months / years long intimidation and harassment campaign by scammers for an incident that they are completely unconnected with.

Like I said, I’m happy to go through this myself but if you can’t see why someone might not make the choice to put someone they love through that, knowing full well what effect it is likely to have on them, then I can’t help you.

Anyway, you’ve clarified the situation for me. There is no way of transferring the correspondent away from the Registered Keeper without admitting liability. I appreciate the reply. Hopefully the pharmacy will come through in time.  

UncleThomasCobley

If you read the Newbies/FAQ thread, you will see that all your partner needs to do, if the pharmacy or the landowner don't manage to cancel the PCN, they will receive a useless debt collector letter once every few weeks which you should explain to them that they just ignore those.

The debt collectors operate on a no-win, no-fee basis for the PPC. They add on an illegal £60-£70 and hope that their victim is gullible enough to fall for it and pays up. Explain to your partner that the debt collector is not a party to the contract that they allegedly breached and have no power to do anything. Use the letters as kindling or emergency loo paper.

After the debt collectors realise that they are not dealing with someone gullible, they will eventually stop. The PPC will then have to decide whether to proceed further with this. If you tell us the name of the PPC, we will have an idea how serious they are. Many will never go to court over a single PCN. Those that do, in the majority of cases we advise on, either discontinue or lose in court.

Should it ever get as far as court, it is not The Old Bailey. It is just a civil matter in the small claims track of the County Court. No wigs or robes etc. Just a judge in a suit, the claimants rep and the defendant. This short video explains what happens should it proceed that far and these days, many are conducted by video link to your home.

https://youtu.be/n93eoaxhzpU?feature=shared

Nothing about this process is intimidating if you know what to expect. The "harassment" that your partner fears is just an occasional letter from an impotent debt collector. It's your/partners money if you really feel the need to fund the scammers. Otherwise, follow the advice on here and don't pay a penny, don't become a "mug" and learn a valuable life lesson about the civil justice system and how to use it to your advantage against scammers.

Umkomaas

If you want the PCN addressed to you, your partner (not you) should simply complete the Transfer of Liability slip on the rear of the Notice to Keeper (or online if that option is available).  But, don't be surprised if they ignore that - either because they CBA to deal with it as it would give them more work to do to transfer it to you, or because no one has even read it.  You're not dealing with John Lewis or M&S. 

We rarely see Manor Parking feature on the forum, so not a lot of form to go on, but I'd guess they're not particularly litigious, otherwise we'd have seen more of them. 

AlanMcGuffin

UncleThomasCobley, my question is just about whether it's possible to remove someone from the attention of the scammers. I appreciate the charge is illegitimate, they are owed nothing and I was hoping to be able to fight this. I was furious when I received the letter. I'd appreciate if you didn't keep suggesting I haven't read the newbie thread either. This isn't covered in the newbie thread. 

Umkommas, should I take option 2 on the transfer of liability form then? It states 'that the RK was the keeper at the time but the car was in someone else’s possession'. 

Again though, if they're not even going to read it and continue with the letters to the RK, and I've got until Day 14 to hear back from them until they rob me even further, it's unlikely this will work. I could try that as well though.

Fruitcake

My son is currently borrowing "hiring" my car and is therefore the hirer/lessee and day to day keeper. The "hire" agreement is that he puts fuel in it and cleans if before he returns it, but it isn't in writing.
As a result, I am borrowing "hiring" my Lovely Cousin's car and therefore I am currently its hirer/lessee and day-to-day keeper. The "hire" agreement is that I give her a good snog on a daily basis, but it isn't in writing.

The registered keeper has the option of naming someone else as the hirer/lessee and day to day keeper. Registered keepers do this all the time. A parent to a child. A wife to a husband/wife etcetera. A RK to a friend. It is a type of informal hire/lease agreement. The RK could therefore name someone else as the hirer/lessee/day-to-day keeper under an informal verbal hire/lease agreement, even if no money changed hands and nothing is put in writing.

AlanMcGuffin

Thanks for that Fruitcake. 
The good news is I've come to an agreement with my partner and she's going to hand all correspondence on this straight to me to deal with and not think about or deal with any of it. So basically the problem has gone away for now. Plan A can now be given time to see if anything happens. Don't need to worry about the 14 day issue anymore. Then onto Plan B if needed. The PPC will be getting £0.00.  

Still think it's useful to have this thread here as it might help someone in the future who's in the same boat. Thanks to everyone for their replies.