Covenant restrictions with working from home

Richard1212

"Property as a whole" seems simple ---it's the standard wording on most of such covenants in the Deeds : It means that not only can you not do what the covenant forbids in your house but also forbids it in a shed at the bottom of the garden or on the back lawn or in a driveway, etc etc.
It is called a way of making sure there is no legal loophole.
 

Bigphil1474

Richard1212 said:

It is a common for such a covenant to be in property deeds to prevent using your home as a workplace, no matter how old the covenant. It is not allowed  to break such covenants and may lead to legal repercussions. withdrawal of mortgage, etc. Your solicitor should be telling you the answer to your question or does he/she not know what you want change and to do at the new property ? 

And, in any case, ( covenant or no covenant) the local authority would probably need to give you permission and register your business, and Heath and Safety also have responsibilities and must know of your running a business from your converted garage.

Then there is the whole question of what neighbours think, how many cars are regularly parking and coming and going to your house, what happens when someone complains and you are faced with the consequences and wasted costly change of use and interior of your garage.

IMO this is a clear case of you cannot do what you want to do, and to try and do in the hope that no-one will notice , hear about it or complain, is far too risky----every street knows what goes on and are bound to find out about your business venture and every street always has someone who will openly or anonymously inform the authorities and their property deeds  will have the same covenant so they will know it is not permitted). I think you could be in trouble, perhaps even with your mortgage lender, as well as out of pocket after all your garage conversion works.

My best advice is to find a new home that does not have such a covenant in the deeds and then proceed to inform the local authority as to whether you need to be registered by them or inspected by HSE-----I know that , for example, hairdressers who do exactly what you want to do ( and do not have a restrictive covenant) still need to be registered by the LA , need HSE inspection---and still face complaints about regular car noise or parking issues.

 

As a local authority Health and Safety Inspector:-

You would only need permission to set up a massage business in a domestic garage or premises if there are any planning considerations, and they are generally about increased traffic/potential noise in this scenario. I doubt they would be too concerned.
There is no requirement for the local Health and Safety service to be told about your business. There is no process for a home massage service to be 'registered' - except maybe in London under Special treatments (I'm not from London)
The HSE have no powers to get involved with a massage service being provided in a converted garage of a domestic property - they can't enter the premises, require anything to be done, or get shirty about it. The local council H&S can.
Hairdressers do not need to be registered with the local council whether working in a salon or in a garage or a shed or even on the street. As above, nothing to do with the HSE either.

OP, other than any interest that the planning department may take in your home business, you are unlikely to get any grief from your local council (except maybe in London area as mentioned above). I've visited loads of places like that - some in bedrooms, some in sheds, some in summerhouses, etc. Never been a problem in my experience. In terms of the covenant, I'd be asking the people who could enforce it - no idea who that is, but that would be my starting point.

Section62

Bigphil1474 said:

Richard1212 said:

It is a common for such a covenant to be in property deeds to prevent using your home as a workplace, no matter how old the covenant. It is not allowed  to break such covenants and may lead to legal repercussions. withdrawal of mortgage, etc. Your solicitor should be telling you the answer to your question or does he/she not know what you want change and to do at the new property ? 

And, in any case, ( covenant or no covenant) the local authority would probably need to give you permission and register your business, and Heath and Safety also have responsibilities and must know of your running a business from your converted garage.

Then there is the whole question of what neighbours think, how many cars are regularly parking and coming and going to your house, what happens when someone complains and you are faced with the consequences and wasted costly change of use and interior of your garage.

IMO this is a clear case of you cannot do what you want to do, and to try and do in the hope that no-one will notice , hear about it or complain, is far too risky----every street knows what goes on and are bound to find out about your business venture and every street always has someone who will openly or anonymously inform the authorities and their property deeds  will have the same covenant so they will know it is not permitted). I think you could be in trouble, perhaps even with your mortgage lender, as well as out of pocket after all your garage conversion works.

My best advice is to find a new home that does not have such a covenant in the deeds and then proceed to inform the local authority as to whether you need to be registered by them or inspected by HSE-----I know that , for example, hairdressers who do exactly what you want to do ( and do not have a restrictive covenant) still need to be registered by the LA , need HSE inspection---and still face complaints about regular car noise or parking issues.

 

As a local authority Health and Safety Inspector:-

You would only need permission to set up a massage business in a domestic garage or premises if there are any planning considerations, and they are generally about increased traffic/potential noise in this scenario. I doubt they would be too concerned.
There is no requirement for the local Health and Safety service to be told about your business. There is no process for a home massage service to be 'registered' - except maybe in London under Special treatments (I'm not from London)
The HSE have no powers to get involved with a massage service being provided in a converted garage of a domestic property - they can't enter the premises, require anything to be done, or get shirty about it. The local council H&S can.
Hairdressers do not need to be registered with the local council whether working in a salon or in a garage or a shed or even on the street. As above, nothing to do with the HSE either.

OP, other than any interest that the planning department may take in your home business, you are unlikely to get any grief from your local council (except maybe in London area as mentioned above). I've visited loads of places like that - some in bedrooms, some in sheds, some in summerhouses, etc. Never been a problem in my experience. In terms of the covenant, I'd be asking the people who could enforce it - no idea who that is, but that would be my starting point.

The rules vary around the country, but the bits in bold above are not entirely correct.  The OP (if they haven't already) should find out what the exact rules are for where they live -

https://www.gov.uk/find-licences/massage-and-special-treatment-premises-licensing

The fact the business will be run in a converted space in a domestic dwelling doesn't affect HSE involvement.  In this case (assuming the OP has no employees) it is the specifics of the services provided that govern the application of health and safety law.

I asked the OP whether they will need to apply for a Massage/special treatment premises license because if they do, the business will be on a publicly accessible register - which increases the potential for the beneficiaries of the covenant to find out about the breach.

Richard1212

https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=575718203&rlz=1C1VDKB_en-GBGB991GB991&q=Do+I+need+permission+to+run+a+hairdressing+business+from+home?&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwif0viw1YuCAxXDSUEAHe5iD8EQzmd6BAgaEAY&biw=1098&bih=501&dpr=1.75

Permissions are obviously needed for hairdressers, as shown link below-----and everything from your mortgage to the feelings of local residents will not make it worth while to take a chance that nobody will tell the authorities---of course they will !

Bigphil1474

Section62 said:

Bigphil1474 said:

Richard1212 said:

It is a common for such a covenant to be in property deeds to prevent using your home as a workplace, no matter how old the covenant. It is not allowed  to break such covenants and may lead to legal repercussions. withdrawal of mortgage, etc. Your solicitor should be telling you the answer to your question or does he/she not know what you want change and to do at the new property ? 

And, in any case, ( covenant or no covenant) the local authority would probably need to give you permission and register your business, and Heath and Safety also have responsibilities and must know of your running a business from your converted garage.

Then there is the whole question of what neighbours think, how many cars are regularly parking and coming and going to your house, what happens when someone complains and you are faced with the consequences and wasted costly change of use and interior of your garage.

IMO this is a clear case of you cannot do what you want to do, and to try and do in the hope that no-one will notice , hear about it or complain, is far too risky----every street knows what goes on and are bound to find out about your business venture and every street always has someone who will openly or anonymously inform the authorities and their property deeds  will have the same covenant so they will know it is not permitted). I think you could be in trouble, perhaps even with your mortgage lender, as well as out of pocket after all your garage conversion works.

My best advice is to find a new home that does not have such a covenant in the deeds and then proceed to inform the local authority as to whether you need to be registered by them or inspected by HSE-----I know that , for example, hairdressers who do exactly what you want to do ( and do not have a restrictive covenant) still need to be registered by the LA , need HSE inspection---and still face complaints about regular car noise or parking issues.

 

As a local authority Health and Safety Inspector:-

You would only need permission to set up a massage business in a domestic garage or premises if there are any planning considerations, and they are generally about increased traffic/potential noise in this scenario. I doubt they would be too concerned.
There is no requirement for the local Health and Safety service to be told about your business. There is no process for a home massage service to be 'registered' - except maybe in London under Special treatments (I'm not from London)
The HSE have no powers to get involved with a massage service being provided in a converted garage of a domestic property - they can't enter the premises, require anything to be done, or get shirty about it. The local council H&S can.
Hairdressers do not need to be registered with the local council whether working in a salon or in a garage or a shed or even on the street. As above, nothing to do with the HSE either.

OP, other than any interest that the planning department may take in your home business, you are unlikely to get any grief from your local council (except maybe in London area as mentioned above). I've visited loads of places like that - some in bedrooms, some in sheds, some in summerhouses, etc. Never been a problem in my experience. In terms of the covenant, I'd be asking the people who could enforce it - no idea who that is, but that would be my starting point.

The rules vary around the country, but the bits in bold above are not entirely correct.  The OP (if they haven't already) should find out what the exact rules are for where they live -

https://www.gov.uk/find-licences/massage-and-special-treatment-premises-licensing

The fact the business will be run in a converted space in a domestic dwelling doesn't affect HSE involvement.  In this case (assuming the OP has no employees) it is the specifics of the services provided that govern the application of health and safety law.

I asked the OP whether they will need to apply for a Massage/special treatment premises license because if they do, the business will be on a publicly accessible register - which increases the potential for the beneficiaries of the covenant to find out about the breach.

Not true (re HSE involvement). If the business is operated in the house with no separate entrance to the business, then it is HSE enforced as a domestic premises. If it is operated in the house or a separate building on the premises, with a dedicated entrance to the business, then it falls to the local council or the HSE depending on the type of business - a masseuse or hairdresser normally being local authority enforced. 

I've not known special treatment licenses be required outside of London, but you are correct there may be some councils that use that system.

We do issue registration certificates for some businesses e.g. tattooists, but there is no public register, and although the information can be requested via FOI, we don't generally give it as it would take too much time to give accurate information. Other councils may be different.

Richard - the OP was buying a house, clearly they wouldn't need to ask their landlord. Obviously, if buying with a mortgage, the lender may be interested. I don't know any council that requires a hairdresser to register their business, although I can't speak to all 300+ of them. There used to be a requirement under the Offices, Shops, and Railway Premises Act (1969?) but that went defunct years ago.

Section62

Bigphil1474 said:

Not true (re HSE involvement). If the business is operated in the house with no separate entrance to the business, then it is HSE enforced as a domestic premises. If it is operated in the house or a separate building on the premises, with a dedicated entrance to the business, then it falls to the local council or the HSE depending on the type of business - a masseuse or hairdresser normally being local authority enforced.

I'm not sure how you can say "Not true".

Your own post goes on to confirm HSE involvement in enforcement in domestic premises [in certain circumstances].

My comment related to where you said -  "The HSE have no powers to get involved with a massage service being provided in a converted garage of a domestic property - they can't enter the premises, require anything to be done, or get shirty about it. The local council H&S can."

I stand by my reply, they can get involved, depending on the circumstances.  That the LA are the enforcement authority in cases where there is a dedicated entrance to the business doesn't mean the HSE cannot enter the premises, for example.

The more significant point though is that running this type of business from a domestic dwelling can involve more than planning considerations and it wasn't entirely correct for you to suggest otherwise.

Bigphil1474 said:

We do issue registration certificates for some businesses e.g. tattooists, but there is no public register, and although the information can be requested via FOI, we don't generally give it as it would take too much time to give accurate information. Other councils may be different.

Off-topic for the OP's issue, but if your council doesn't keep accurate records relating to a regulatory functions (and/or could use them to respond to appropriate FOI requests) then it may be subject to enforcement action itself.  Does your council's monitoring officer know you are refusing FOI requests on the basis your records aren't sufficiently accurate to be able to respond in accordance with the Act?