CCJ Issued but 1 Month has Elapsed (Highview Parking & DBCLegal)

EngineerAmber

Thank you all - I've done some more digging today and will prepare all the paperwork in the next could days.

Is my defence to set aside the CCJ on the basis of not receiving the letters, then pay the original PCN or to set aside then defend the original PCN?

Umkomaas

EngineerAmber said:

Thank you all - I've done some more digging today and will prepare all the paperwork in the next could days.

Is my defence to set aside the CCJ on the basis of not receiving the letters, then pay the original PCN or to set aside then defend the original PCN?

As I said yesterday, if the judgment is more than a month old and the deadline to pay it has passed, paying it now does nothing to remove the CCJ. Do not knee-jerk thinking it's going to help, it doesn't.

The set aside process is the only way to potentially remove the CCJ.

Coupon-mad

EngineerAmber said:

Thank you all - I've done some more digging today and will prepare all the paperwork in the next could days.

Is my defence to set aside the CCJ on the basis of not receiving the letters, then pay the original PCN or to set aside then defend the original PCN?

If you suggest to the Judge you might pay the PCN then you might not get the CCJ set aside.  One of the considerations for the court is your prospects of successful defence.

Do not bin that stance.

Also, YOU CAN'T PAY THE 'ORIGINAL PCN'.  That's never an option.

Obviously you'll defend. This is explained in the CCJ set aside section of the NEWBIES thread. 

EngineerAmber

Hey everyone, thanks for the tips so far. I spent a good few hours today researching what to do next. I think I'm clear on actions but would be great if someone can confirm so I'll can get writing the documents.

1. Submint N244 including Witness Statement (and maybe evidence? See below)

Do I need to do the following steps (they are In the NEWBIE thread CCJ / LBC section I'm unsure if these only apply to LBC or to CCJ as well)

1. Money Claim Online
2. Defense (using the template and change bullets 2 & 3 to my own situation)
3. Directions Questionnaire N180 Form

I've also been going back and forth on the Grounds for my Case. I think these are my options:

Push for “CPR 13.2 Must Set Aside” on the basis that I have not received the letters as have 2 residences, and been mainly at the London addess which is different address from where the car (and all my bills, voting etc) registered to. This is due to work & girlfiriend in London, plus building works ongoing in main address in leamington. Not sure how strong this argument is (and does it open other cans of worms legally?) In my defense, I do have a tenancy agreement and car insurance in London but the claimant (highview) would not know than but I suppose they had no response to any prior letters over a 4 year period should have realised....thoughts?

Push for “CPR 13.3 May set aside” because I could successfully defend my case. There are a couple of examples cases being dropped at the same car park due to the poor signage, non compliant notice to keeper, operator has not shown the keeper is the driver and no evidence of landowner authority. If I go for this route would I/or how would I request to see the evidence against me as I do not have any of the PCN letters, only vague memory of the original PCN letter and visit in 2019. Otherwise how am I making a robust defense if I don't have details of the alleged offence? See thread of similar case.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5587115/highview-parking-coventry-non-compliant-ntk-and-popla-appeal/p1

One thing I did which I hope doesn’t mess things up…Once I saw the CCJ on the credit score and before I joined the forum, I retrieved a letter from leamington from DBCLegal and called them to asked them for more information about the case saying this is the first I’ve heard of it. I did not admit fault or any knowledge of PCN, but did say I had only just received the letter (Friday last week) and what they were claiming was long time ago I would need to investigate further. All they told my was what was on the CCJ on my credit file. Date, location but no images or offence etc.

Once again thanks again for your help. As a gesture of thanks I will happily make some suggestions to improve the newbie CCJ section to help people with like me who have zero prior knowledge. What is the best place to assist?

A

Harvez63

In your shoes, even with a tiny chance, I'd definitely be taking it, you dont want to live with a CCJ. It's hell, and thats not an exaggeration either. Good luck 

Coupon-mad

It doesn't matter that you went to Leamington and retrieved the letter after finding out about the CCJ.  Doesn't matter that you phoned.

"Do I need to do the following steps"

No.  That's for claims received/defended.

You do the N244, with a Draft Order and:

- evidence of long term living in London. You can do that even without banking/bills. Anything from proof of regular London train travel to proof of sharing bills/paying a sum towards rent for the house share. Shopping receipts? Bank statement showing things/travel bought in London this year. And things like Google location history timeline on your phone and a screenshot of the location of your daily work laptop's IP address (I'm thinking outside the box here) 

- further evidence of that location, in the form of a WS signed & dated under a statement of truth by your gf stating the month you 'moved'

- state in your WS that the car remained properly registered at Leamington because that was where it was normally kept but you only rarely visited Leamington since 2022 (or whatever) so this is a classic case of the DVLA car address not necessarily indicating an address for service;

- state that you are confident you have good prospects of success and looking at the woefully inadequate Particulars of Claim ('POC'), the case should be dismissed entirely at the CCJ hearing, due to the persuasive case of CEL v Chan (HHJ Murch) the full transcript for which is attached;

- in the alternative, if the court does not follow the Chan appeal case 'precedent' (which also involved a CCJ set aside sent to an address where the Defendant was not living) under CPR 13.3 there are 'other good reasons' to set aside this CCJ. As such, you would ask that you be furnished with further and better POC sent to the LONDON address and photographic evidence (everything the Claimant relies upon) by order of the court, then sufficient time to read the POC and consider their allegations, then file and serve the defence

Make sure your N244 mentions CPR 13 and matches the three points in your (separate sheet and a word doc) Draft Order.

All other attachments including both WS are saved as PDFs.

London address on everything including your girlfriend's WS.

The 3 points are in all recent CCJ threads.  Probably found by searching the forum for:

CCJ Draft Order Chan

EngineerAmber

Marvlous thanks so much that gives me plenty to go on this evening I'll try get as much as I can drafted now  before asking more! Cheers
A

Castle

If you used an Oyster card or contactless for regular travel within London would also be evidence. 

EngineerAmber

Awesome I can gather all that. Just to be clear then @Coupon-mad , for CPR 13.3 I would be requesting more information, not actually writing a defense at this time?

If the Must set aside is not granted would I have an opportunity to get the additional info and defend properly? Should I write this request in the WS now?

Coupon-mad

Don't write a defence at this time.

It's better if you don't give the first (CCJ hearing) Judge the opportunity to consider your full defence, because if this is a crusty old Judge who got out of the wrong side of bed, and is somewhat against you from the outset, they might decide to deal with the whole case in one hearing.

Could then go either way.  Giving them the whole defence to grumpily dismiss isn't a good idea IMHO. You don't want that because it could tip the balance the wrong way.

Better to go for CCJ set aside and claim dismissed as your first aim.

Alternative 'safety net' stance is: CCJ set aside under CPR 13.3  and the C ordered to send you full POC with photos, to then allow you to defend.  

Be prepared at the hearing to say a few words about what you think you will base your defence on (unclear signs? Not unauthorised?) as the Judge will almost certainly ask.

But use that question as an opportunity to reiterate that you've never seen any evidence and the woeful POC (whether deemed properly served or not) breach the CPRs anyway, just like in CEL v Chan where HHJ Murch put right a mistake at a CCJ set aside hearing (despite the claim being considered 'served' at a DVLA address in that case too).

Bulk Claimants with legal teams should know better than to breach the Practice Direction and CPRs with inadequate POC and the Chan case is 'persuasive' (appeal level) and shows parking operators are failing to comply.