Insurance Database

stuhse

Sorry its taken me so long to come back on this, here we are now two weeks since my wife asked the insurance company to make good their error and log her insurance on the MID, and it still is showing not insured.  She has contacted them numerous times and raised a complaint.  Im lost for what else we can do.  Everyday she heads to work fearing another encounter and the car actually being siezed.

stuhse

Ectophile said:

Under ACPO guidance https://library.college.police.uk/docs/ACPO/ACPO-uninsured-motor-vehicles-2006.pdf , if the motorist can produce evidence that the vehicle is insured, then a police officer should not seize it.  See Section 1.2 (the second condition).

So if you can produce a certificate of insurance to an officer when stopped, it's then up to them to show that the insurance is not valid.

I have just printed out 3 copies of my new motor insurance certificate, and strategically placed them in each of my rucksacks. (I have separate rucksacks for work, leisure and volunteering in case anyone is wondering.  It saves me having to keep taking things in and out of them.)

She did show them an electronic copy of her insurance certificate issued some 3 months earlier...as far as the policeman  was concerned he did show that certificate was invalid by consulting the MID - i would tend to agree with him- As i understand it there is 72 hours leeway allowed for updating the database after insurance is taken out. 

stuhse

born_again said:

Ectophile said:

Under ACPO guidance https://library.college.police.uk/docs/ACPO/ACPO-uninsured-motor-vehicles-2006.pdf , if the motorist can produce evidence that the vehicle is insured, then a police officer should not seize it.  See Section 1.2 (the second condition).

So if you can produce a certificate of insurance to an officer when stopped, it's then up to them to show that the insurance is not valid.

I have just printed out 3 copies of my new motor insurance certificate, and strategically placed them in each of my rucksacks. (I have separate rucksacks for work, leisure and volunteering in case anyone is wondering.  It saves me having to keep taking things in and out of them.)

Pretty easy. They just ring insurer. 

The policeman did ring the insurer, but it was out of hours. 17.35 ...no answer was the reply.

stuhse

Mildly_Miffed said:

[Deleted User] said:

Yes, thanks for the reminder, always film the encounter. Aside from self protection, it may be useful later when you claim for their bungling idiocy.

What did the police do wrong?

They stopped a car that was not on MID as insured.

The driver (eventually) produced insurance paperwork that was still current, but was not proof that the policy had not been cancelled in the interim.
The police explained this, while following ACPO guidelines and letting them continue.

I presume the police tried to contact the insurer, but couldn't. It was a weekday, but was it out of hours?

The issue here is that the insurer have not updated MID as they are required to do.

Moral of the story: Check your own car on askmid.com a week or two after a policy change, and ensure the insurers have recorded it correctly.

I don't think there's many people who would think the police keeping uninsured drivers off the road is a bad thing.

The only thing the policeman really did wrong was allow a car not showing as insured to continue on its journey !  Luckily for us he was convinced of my wifes good standing- but i believe he contravined the letter of his procedures. 
Your moral is absolutely correct, we have now worked through all our other vehicles checking they are showing as insured !!

stuhse

I will report when the MID is finally updated...i fear it may be some time !

TooManyPoints

The only thing the policeman really did wrong was allow a car not showing as insured to continue on its journey ! 

That’s not quite correct. Whilst it’s a very handy tool for the police, in some respects – especially for people in your predicament – the MID is the worst thing the police could have been provided with.

The problem is that is not an offence to drive a vehicle which is not shown as insured on the MID. It is only an offence to drive one where the driver is not covered to drive the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used. A lack of an entry on the MID only provides the police with reasonable grounds to suspect that no cover is in place. Where a driver is stopped and subsequently produces a Certificate of Insurance, the police cannot simply assume that the certificate must be invalid. To do so would assume that the MID is infallible, which clearly it is not. Instead they should make further enquiries as necessary. 

The section of the Road Traffic Act (s165A) which covers seizure of vehicles suspected of being driven without insurance is quite clear. It says this:

(3)The second condition is that—

(a)a constable in uniform requires, under section 165, a person to produce evidence that a motor vehicle is not or was not being driven [without insurance cover]

(b)the person fails to produce such evidence, and

(c)the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that the vehicle is or was being so driven.

So, if the requirement under (3)(a) is met by the production of a Certificate of Insurance, condition (3)(b) is not satisfied, so that is where the threat of seizure should end unless the officer has (other) reasonable grounds to suspect that no cover is in place. It is not sufficient for the officer to say that “there is no entry on the MID, therefore your certificate must be invalid.” Of course the policy could have been cancelled in the meantime, but if he suspects that I would suggest he needs something more than a lack of an entry on the MID to confirm his suspicions. If he doubts the veracity of the certificate he should make further enquiries before seizure becomes lawful. The trouble is that officers have been encouraged to believe that “No entry on MID equals no insurance” and that is clearly not necessarily so.

On a wider note, I would seriously consider changing my insurer if I were you. They have an obligation to ensure your vehicle’s details are correctly entered on to the MID in a timely fashion. If they cannot even do that, it should make you wonder how they would cope in the event you made a claim. As mentioned above, Yoga are brokers (i.e. intermediaries), not insurers. I’m not sure whether they have access to the MID themselves or if they rely on the insurer to make the entry. In any case their website says they aim to make an entry within 48 hours, though it may take up to seven days following a weekend or Bank Holiday. I think you have been more than patient enough. I would recommend giving Yoga written notice that you require them to ensure the MID is updated within 48 hours, and cancel you policy if they fail.

stuhse

Thanks,

That very useful to know.