Cold radiator

ThisIsWeird

janbeno said:

Just had a go, the left spindle moved 3 1/4 turns , but the right one with the drain spout was locked absolutely solid. I sprayed with WD40 and left it for a while, still no joy, it won't budge either way. The rad was working before the service and drain . Realistically the locked side must have been like that before and as I said it was working fine?

All the other rads heated up fully. I'm really at a loss now.

Ok, I'm going to assume the LH valve is the 'control' - the one that you can adjust to turn the rad on, off, down and up. The stuck RH one is the 'lockshield'. When all this is sorted, you should buy a proper control knob for the LH side, that clicks on to the actual spindle, so you can control that rad at will.

I'm also assuming that the RH spindle has just been turned too far towards the end of its travel, and has 'stuck' there. Since the rad ain't working, I'm going to use my amazing powers of deduction to suggest it's been closed down fully - ie, clockwise.

Are both valves visually identical, at least as far as the spindly parts go? If so, could you measure how far out the spindle is? Place a piece of paper behind the LH one, sitting on the brass nut, and mark the very top of the spindle on it. Transfer that to the RH side and compare. 

If they are too close to judge, then open (anti-clock) the LH spindle, say, 5 more turns so it's longer. Does that help to compare them?!

Ok, it might seem scary, but if it's pretty clear that the RH spindle is fully screwed down clockwise - shorter spindle, and rad being off are pretty conclusive - then it'll need turning anti-clock to release it. It may seem well stuck, but will almost certainly budge and become free with 'enough' force. What kind of tool are you using?

janbeno

ThisIsWeird said:

janbeno said:

Just had a go, the left spindle moved 3 1/4 turns , but the right one with the drain spout was locked absolutely solid. I sprayed with WD40 and left it for a while, still no joy, it won't budge either way. The rad was working before the service and drain . Realistically the locked side must have been like that before and as I said it was working fine?

All the other rads heated up fully. I'm really at a loss now.

Ok, I'm going to assume the LH valve is the 'control' - the one that you can adjust to turn the rad on, off, down and up. The stuck RH one is the 'lockshield'. When all this is sorted, you should buy a proper control knob for the LH side, that clicks on to the actual spindle, so you can control that rad at will.

I'm also assuming that the RH spindle has just been turned too far towards the end of its travel, and has 'stuck' there. Since the rad ain't working, I'm going to use my amazing powers of deduction to suggest it's been closed down fully - ie, clockwise.

Are both valves visually identical, at least as far as the spindly parts go? If so, could you measure how far out the spindle is? Place a piece of paper behind the LH one, sitting on the brass nut, and mark the very top of the spindle on it. Transfer that to the RH side and compare. 

If they are too close to judge, then open (anti-clock) the LH spindle, say, 5 more turns so it's longer. Does that help to compare them?!

Ok, it might seem scary, but if it's pretty clear that the RH spindle is fully screwed down clockwise - shorter spindle, and rad being off are pretty conclusive - then it'll need turning anti-clock to release it. It may seem well stuck, but will almost certainly budge and become free with 'enough' force. What kind of tool are you using?

Hi thanks for the extra help. I'm using pliers, my worry is if I put too much force it will break?

As I also said I'm wondering if that RH spindle is actually open, because the rad was working before the service. He did drain the system from this rad and the other one that I got going [ We live in a bungalow and the boiler is in the loft]. I'll have another go at your suggestion and let you know what happens. I may not be able to do it immediately as I have stuff on next couple of days.

Your input is appreciated. 

ThisIsWeird

Measure their respective heights
Yes, it could be seized fully open instead, or even stuck midway, but that would indicate a bigger issue re why the rad ain't heating up.
I'd def open (anti-c) the LH valve fully, as at least you'll know that one was open. It'll also allow you to compare the two spindle heights properly.
Pliers are 'fine', since you presumably don't have an adjustable spanner? Either way, there is next to zero chance of you snapping that spindle - I don't care how buff you are

janbeno

  I don't care how buff you are   I'm a 68 year old woman, with the muscle tone of spaghetti and arthritis , it did  make me laugh though. I'll let you know how I get on 

Emily_Joy

OP, apologies if this has been discussed already, but are the pipes going to and from the radiator hot or cold? If one is cold and another one is hot, then you presumably need to turn the one which is hot.

ThisIsWeird

Emily_Joy said:

OP, apologies if this has been discussed already, but are the pipes going to and from the radiator hot or cold? If one is cold and another one is hot, then you presumably need to turn the one which is hot.

You need to open both to get any flow through the boiler. And, if a rad is turned off - at either end - then both supply pipes will be cold. 
But, yes, you can sometimes feel if one pipe is warmer than the other, from heat conducted through it from where it tees off from the main circuit. That will be the 'flow', and convention suggests you put your control valve on that end.

Having recently fitted a couple of tall column rads, I was surprised to see that they must be fitted one way around, the flow to its left. I had to swap the pipes further down the line

janbeno

UPDATE:

I gave the RV a good soaking with WD40 last week it wouldn't budge. Today I thought that the WD40 has had enough time to soak thoroughly. I tried to turn it and with a bit of persuasion it finally moved ANTICLOCKWISE.

As I said it was working before he did the service, I think he closed the valve in order to use the drain bit to empty the system then forgot he'd done it, could that be feasible?

Well it's working now and I'd like to say a really big thank you to TiW and all the other members that helped me out.

Thank you and big hugs xx

ThisIsWeird

janbeno said:

UPDATE:

I gave the RV a good soaking with WD40 last week it wouldn't budge. Today I thought that the WD40 has had enough time to soak thoroughly. I tried to turn it and with a bit of persuasion it finally moved ANTICLOCKWISE.

As I said it was working before he did the service, I think he closed the valve in order to use the drain bit to empty the system then forgot he'd done it, could that be feasible?

Well it's working now and I'd like to say a really big thank you to TiW and all the other members that helped me out.

Thank you and big hugs xx

OOoooh - nice hug!

Yes, that is the most plausible explanation - the guy left it closed. Tsk.

The only thing now is to ensure it isn't too far open - that this rad isn't stealing too much flow and depriving the others.

Really, that valve - or one of the two - should have a 'control' cap on it, one that clips on to the top of that spindle, and allows it to be turned, by hand, at will. This way you can control the output. Then it would be worth tweaking it closed - clockwise - bit by bit over the next few days until it reaches a point that it's cooler than you like, and then anti-clock it a quarter turn to get it hot enough again. Ie, you want it as closed as it can be - whilst still doing its job!

You could, of course, do this with your pliers, but much easier with a proper 'cap' on it.

Not sure which would be best to use - if we knew the make of the valve it would help:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/replacement-safety-radiator-valve-caps-white-2-pack/83291 (seemingly quite awkward to fit, and even harder to remove...)

https://www.screwfix.com/p/drayton-radiator-valve-cap-white-5-pack/5649r

janbeno

This radiator as I said was in the hall it's in the old side of our bungalow and is North facing with double brick construction and no cavity wall insulation. This rad was the 'open' on on the system . It really is a very cold area . I realise we have got the towel rail in the bathroom that is an open rad as well.

I will tweak it over the next few days as you suggest. Thanks again x