Solicitor threatens PRISON over S20

eddddy

masterjoiner said:

The works are calculated around £3,000 per leaseholder. 

So it sounds like you stand to lose £11k in the worst case. For example...

• After you've had the work done, the 'difficult' leaseholder takes you to tribunal, and gets the section 20 consultation ruled invalid. So their bill is reduced from £3k to £250 - so you have to refund £2750.

• Then the other leaseholders think - "if the 'difficult' leaseholder only had to pay £250, it's not fair that I have to pay £3k - so I'll do the same as the 'difficult' leaseholder, and get a refund of £2750"

As I said above, there are two ways of making sure the above doesn't happen... Either

• Make sure the leaseholders sign something saying something like "I agree to pay £3k for the work", or

• Apply to a tribunal for determination (confirmation) that the service charge of £3k per leaseholder is reasonable.

 

masterjoiner

martindow said:

Would a prudent course of action be to inform everyone that as there are some issuess over the responses received this S20 procedure will be started anew to ensure that all parties have been able to respond?  You could ask if they want to use their previous responses or ptoduce new ones and get confirmation from the contractors of their current tenders.  At the end of the time period for responses it would be prudent to wait a few days to be sure you have got everything back before going on to the next step.

Thanks @martindow maybe but as @JM68 suggested, I may "pause the works and re-serve the stage 3 notices, including giving 'due regard' to their stage 2 objections in the meantime (which could just mean not accepting them and explaining why)." 

It's a pain in the posterior but I want to get it right. This had left me anxious, confused and resentful of doing ANY works but I guess this is what comes with being a freeholder, as well as a leaseholder. Ah well (sigh). 

eddddy

masterjoiner said:

Thanks @martindow maybe but as @JM68 suggested, I may "pause the works and re-serve the stage 3 notices, including giving 'due regard' to their stage 2 objections in the meantime (which could just mean not accepting them and explaining why)." 

It's a pain in the posterior but I want to get it right. This had left me anxious, confused and resentful of doing ANY works but I guess this is what comes with being a freeholder, as well as a leaseholder. Ah well (sigh). 

This is still risky.

For example, the difficult leaseholder might be thinking "I've spotted something else you've done wrong in the section 20 consultation - but I'm not going to tell you what it is.

Instead, I'll wait until the work is done - then take you to tribunal, and use your mistake as a reason to get my money back".

masterjoiner

eddddy said:

masterjoiner said:

Thanks @martindow maybe but as @JM68 suggested, I may "pause the works and re-serve the stage 3 notices, including giving 'due regard' to their stage 2 objections in the meantime (which could just mean not accepting them and explaining why)." 

It's a pain in the posterior but I want to get it right. This had left me anxious, confused and resentful of doing ANY works but I guess this is what comes with being a freeholder, as well as a leaseholder. Ah well (sigh). 

This is still risky.

For example, the difficult leaseholder might be thinking "I've spotted something else you've done wrong in the section 20 consultation - but I'm not going to tell you what it is.

Instead, I'll wait until the work is done - then take you to tribunal, and use your mistake as a reason to get my money back".

Thanks @eddddy but I still cannot see what I have done wrong. I asked for written responses to be sent to my home address, yet his Solicitor sent it to my email address, which landed in Spam.

I did not rely on emails, which is why I served everything via hand delivery to the leaseholder's address and then via first class post, THEN I sent an email to each leaseholder confirming what I had done.

Sorry to keep bringing up the same point but the Solicitor acted OUTSIDE the wording on each Notice stating that written responses were to be sent to my home address. I am struggling to see how a Tribunal will say I am in the wrong and the Solicitor's aggressive stance makes me believe that they know sending a response via email (I still haven't received anything via post) at the last minute, was dubious and stinks of a Solicitor taking the money from their client but leaving things to the last minute by sending an email, then threatening me, as a distraction. 

masterjoiner

Sorry, forgot to add that not only did I leave the required 30 days for the Notice period, I also added 5 days, as is industry standard, so unsure on what basis the one leaseholder can go to a leaseholder's Tribunal, as the S20 Notices were served correctly. 

eddddy

masterjoiner said:

Sorry, forgot to add that not only did I leave the required 30 days for the Notice period, I also added 5 days, as is industry standard, so unsure on what basis the one leaseholder can go to a leaseholder's Tribunal, as the S20 Notices were served correctly. 

They can go to tribunal to challenge the amount of the charge - irrelevant of whether the notices were served correctly or not.

Also, for example, the 30 days starts from the date the tenant receives the notice. Has the tenant agreed that they had the full 30 days consultation? Or if the tenant claims that they didn't get the full 30 days, do you have evidence to show that the tenant is wrong?

(For example, could the extra 5 days have been taken up due to postal strikes, weekends, etc)

For reference, take a look at:

Trafford Housing Trust Limited v Rubinstein & Others

Since the consultation period in the notice ended on 15 April, the tenants had only been given 29 days' notice and the section 20 notice was therefore invalid.

Link: https://www.brecher.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/are-you-giving-30-days-trafford-housing.pdf

 But obviously, it's your choice how you want to proceed. 

masterjoiner

@eddddy 'the 30 days starts from the date the tenant receives the notice. Has the tenant agreed that they had the full 30 days consultation? Or if the tenant claims that they didn't get the full 30 days, do you have evidence to show that the tenant is wrong?' 

The tenant hasn't agreed to anything, just him and his Solicitor sending menacing letters, baseless claims accusing me of causing damage to the building which is why major works are required and making egregious claims, saying I am being untruthful regarding not receiving their response (sent via email) and them threatening prison. 

I hand delivered each S20 Consultation Notice to the property address and then sent via first class post. I have signed certificates of service and proof of postage receipts to evidence this. There are 35 days from the date of service to the expiry date, thanks. 

eddddy

That's good. So that's one less thing they can challenge at the tribunal.

masterjoiner

Hello all, thanks for your replies, I'm very grateful 🙏🏾 

As @JM68 suggested, I will "pause the works and re-serve the stage 3 notices, including giving 'due regard' to their stage 2 objections in the meantime (which could just mean not accepting them and explaining why)."