Costs involved in owning a plot of land with trees

RHemmings

There are a lot of things to answer and consider here. As above, I still think this is well beyond me.

@Keep_pedalling - I suspect you might approve of my mode of transport. This is another point about the land being for wildlife that makes it beyond anything I can do for myself. Thanks for the info. 

@GDB2222 (and others) Thanks. It seems like the TPO protects the trees, and if enough trees the nature of the land.

@eddddy - thanks for all the background. I didn't manage to get out and look today, but solely out of curiosity hope to do so tomorrow. You and others such as @Flugelhornmentioned fly-tipping. There's a lot of that around here, and I must admit that I'm thinking that I'll be surprised if it never happens amongst those trees. 

@Section62 As to why I asked if the auction is ending in 12 days, well I didn't know how rare land is, and whether land like houses often fails to sell at auction and sticks around for sale forever. If this a once in a lifetime opportunity to buy, then you're right. However, I like collecting information and packing it away in case it's useful. If it turned out to be a great thing to buy, then I could buy it with the remaining 1/3 of my emergency cash - the other 2/3 is going towards my house purchase, and then break a term deposit to replenish emergency cash. But, only if it's really a great idea to buy it. Which, it appears, it isn't. I said before that I can't afford it now, but that's because I don't include emergency cash in calculations of what I can do. But, if I really needed to...

lincroft1710

RHemmings said:

I still think this is well beyond me

@Section62 As to why I asked if the auction is ending in 12 days, well I didn't know how rare land is, and whether land like houses often fails to sell at auction and sticks around for sale forever. If this a once in a lifetime opportunity to buy, then you're right. However, I like collecting information and packing it away in case it's useful. If it turned out to be a great thing to buy, then I could buy it with the remaining 1/3 of my emergency cash - the other 2/3 is going towards my house purchase, and then break a term deposit to replenish emergency cash. But, only if it's really a great idea to buy it. Which, it appears, it isn't. I said before that I can't afford it now, but that's because I don't include emergency cash in calculations of what I can do. But, if I really needed to...

Developers and their cronies are always on the lookout for cheap land deals and if this was worthwhile to them they would outbid you in an instant. Anything with TPOs on it is not good news, with all these trees it's a nightmare. Fail to properly maintain those trees and one falls and causes damage and you could be liable, and that's easily several thousand pounds if not more.


Buying this land is like buying a cheap Ferrari or Rolls Royce, the initial investment may be low but the ongoing maintenance and running costs can be horrendous.


You are wise to stay away.

eddddy

lincroft1710 said:

Developers and their cronies are always on the lookout for cheap land deals and if this was worthwhile to them they would outbid you in an instant. 

Although in this case, the land has been owned by a developer (Bryant Homes / Taylor Wimpey) for 27 years. 

So I suspect their legal and planning teams have thoroughly investigated development potential during that time, and they've decided it's a "no hoper" - which is why they're selling it.

RHemmings

I'm very pleased to read that developing this land is likely a 'nightmare' and a 'no hoper'  

lincroft1710

eddddy said:

lincroft1710 said:

Developers and their cronies are always on the lookout for cheap land deals and if this was worthwhile to them they would outbid you in an instant. 

Although in this case, the land has been owned by a developer (Bryant Homes / Taylor Wimpey) for 27 years. 

So I suspect their legal and planning teams have thoroughly investigated development potential during that time, and they've decided it's a "no hoper" - which is why they're selling it.

Plus it is no doubt costly to maintain and they derive no benefit from owning it

ansaryon

RHemmings said:

Note: my purpose in owning this land wouldn't be to try and profit from it by getting planning permission for houses etc. My intention would be to own it to stop anyone else doing that.  I'm an eco-nut, and am thinking seriously about this. 

If I bought this bit of land, then what would be the costs involved in owning it? Would I be required to get tree surgeons in to work on the trees, or could I just leave it wild? As a sort of private wildlife refuge.

Long post alert!

I bought my neighbour's house last year, not because I wanted the bungalow (which is a WW1 officers' hut - literally chicken wire and cement), but because of the back garden... I wanted a) to stop houses being built there and b) to keep my view of the trees which I've enjoyed for the past 40 years.

After disposing of the bungalow (to a friend who has spent the last year refurbishing it from top to bottom, including replacing all the floors, walls, the wiring, the plumbing - the lot), I still have the garden. In effect, it cost £80K for 225sqm of land - something nobody would ever consider good value, but it was the only chance I'd ever have at saving it. 

The plan is to turn it into a sort of woodland walk - ideal for when I get a dog in the future. I've already acquired a bat and some nesting pigeons... it seems that was a mini wildlife haven.

It turned out to be a very expensive project! 

Before I've even started on putting a bark-chipping path through it all, I've:

* Had to fence it off, as the existing fencing was over 30 years old and rotting away. That included fencing off the garden from the old bungalow. The cost for 140ft of fencing, plus removing the old stuff, as well as two of my garden panels and a pole, came to around £6,000. This took the best part of a week, as they had to level the ground, but that needed all the thick ivy to be removed - and *that* took a mini digger. They also had to hack away a lot of the boundary shrubbery and brambles simply to get to the fenceline, as well as trimming back the trees that were overhanging the public footpath and road.

At this point, on hearing power tools in use, rumours were apparently spreading that the land was being cleared for housing!

(Incidentally when trying to get a value for the bungalow, the RICS surveyor kept saying it'd be worth more as a whole plot, I could get three houses on it... he couldn't grasp that I didn't want to put three houses, or any new houses at all on it.)

* I then engaged someone local who was a newly qualified arborist - he said it was refreshing to do a "tidying up" job, rather than the much more common "chop it down" job. It took a team of two or three people a week and a bit, which included removing some dead and diseased trees, as well as "tidying up" the apple tree, cherry tree, Scots pine and so on - the latter needed harnesses and all sorts. This cost £4,000 all in and included removing most of the green waste. I kept some logs from the dead trees to use as edging for the path I plan to put in.

* I then had to get rid of an "about to fall down" summer house, full of junk, as well as an old 1950s caravan, also full of junk and also in the process of falling apart. The cost of removing all that rubbish via a licensed contractor was another £600 or so.

There's still some more rubbish left to go, the remnants of another shed, also with more junk underneath, but I'll break that into small bits and get rid of it with the general waste. 

It's worth saying that if you own trees adjacent to a public footpath/road, you have the responsibility to look after them, cutting them back as per the law and making sure they don't pose a risk to anyone. At the very least, that requires getting someone with arboricultural knowledge to assess the trees.

It's worth it in the long run, though. I had a very nice Christmas card last year from one of the people whose bungalow faces my new garden - she thanked me for "saving the garden". And at least she, and everyone else in the area, gets to keep looking at trees!

Before:

After:

FreeBear

ansaryon said: I bought my neighbour's house last year, not because I wanted the bungalow (which is a WW1 officers' hut - literally chicken wire and cement), but because of the back garden... I wanted a) to stop houses being built there and b) to keep my view of the trees which I've enjoyed for the past 40 years.

(Incidentally when trying to get a value for the bungalow, the RICS surveyor kept saying it'd be worth more as a whole plot, I could get three houses on it... he couldn't grasp that I didn't want to put three houses, or any new houses at all on it.)

A good chance that the next owner will purchase the plot with the view to clearing the area and sticking a couple of houses on it. If you care about the long term future of the space, get some legal advice about covenants and perhaps have a couple of the trees subjected to a TPO. Although, having a TPO won't stop some little scrote chopping it down in the middle of the night.

ansaryon

A good chance that the next owner will purchase the plot with the view to clearing the area and sticking a couple of houses on it. If you care about the long term future of the space, get some legal advice about covenants and perhaps have a couple of the trees subjected to a TPO. Although, having a TPO won't stop some little scrote chopping it down in the middle of the night.

The plan is to stay here until I die, which in my family tends to be around the age of 70 - so another 25 years or so, at least. You're right about the future, though, and my plan was originally to leave the new bit of garden to the parish council, with instructions to make it accessible to the public in the form of a small park/amenity space. I've been put off that somewhat, though, as a nearby house which was left "to the people of my village, for community use" has recently been abandoned by Age UK. It then received planning to return to a residential use and there's not been a peep from the council!

A TPO on the Scots Pine (scrotes aside) would be sensible, but my understanding is that you can only have one if a) the tree is visible from a public point of view and b) is at threat of development.

No worries with a) - you can see it from neighbouring roads - but b) fails as it's not at risk of development.

Covenants can only be enforced by the vendor, is my understanding, and I won't be able to do that once I'm dead.

I think obtaining legal advice would be a good idea.

RHemmings

Thank you @ansaryon for sharing your story and the pictures. Fascinating, and well done you for protecting the environment. I hope you enjoy it well past the age of 70. 

I visited the piece of land mentioned in the OP, and the two other pieces of land nearby today. They are really, really, nice. Much better than I thought they would be from the photos. The long one has really nice trees, and there is a worn path going down the middle, and despite the narrowness of the strip of trees, it's a really nice woodland walk. There is evidence of wildlife there. There is not even litter that I noticed, let alone fly tipping. It's a big estate of newish and mostly good sized detached houses there. The gardens are mostly immaculate. I was told that it's pretty quiet there and 

There has been some work done there. One tree has been chopped down and cut up. I spoke to a neighbour, and the people living next to this strip of trees - at one end at least - are aware that it's for sale and are considering options of what to do. They are also conscious of the risk of one of the trees falling on their house, and have asked for the trees to be trimmed. That's a big job on trees that high.

The other two are more trees and less grass than I expected from the pictures, and the trees seem bigger than I guessed from the photos. I spoke to a neighbour (to the green area) here as well, and he was entirely unaware that the plot was privately owned, nor that it was for sale. I showed him the listings on Rightmove. 

The two smaller green areas at least, and I guess the bigger one too, are used by all the local children as play areas. The man I spoke to thought that it's the council that comes and mows the grass etc once in a while. But, he thought I was from the council so maybe his identification of council people is a bit optimistic. Someone has been working on them. 

I've got photos, and I'll post a few in another post (direct from my phone). 

RHemmings

I have to type at least 9 characters. And, I can't seem to remove the blurry photos.