Probate being requested by IFA

sarahemmm

My father and stepmother had mirror wills. Stepmother died Jan 2020, and my understanding was that probate was not required at that point because everything passed to her husband (my father). Solicitor was involved, probate was not requested by her executors (her 2 children).

Now (Oct 2023) the solicitors have written to my father to sign various declarations in order to grant probate. On investigation, this is apparently so that some shares can be transferred into my father's name.

My question: is this necessary?

My father is 94, and has poor memory. He is being asked to sign that his wife had no other bank accounts than their joint ones, and had not made any gifts in the two years before she died. He thinks this is the case, but from knowledge of the situation it may well not be so.

Secondary question: If he signs the forms as suggested, does this prevent any checks on gifts/accounts when he dies and we execute probate on his will? (I am an additional executor on his will, with his stepchildren.)

Final question: The request for probate states that my father is requesting probate, and that one of his stepdaughters is NOT requesting probate. What is going on here?

Linton

It is normal for probate to be required for an  executor to dispose of the deceased’s shares as it gives formal confirmation a that the executor has the right to do so.  The list of shareholders is a legal document and so must be accurate. Similar to the need for probate when disposing of a house.

One would expect that probate will also be required if your father still owns the shares when he dies.

I do not know the significance of the step daughter wording.  Best to ask the solicitor. Is the step daughter also an executor? Then it could  make sense to confirm that there won’t be 2 probate requests for the same shares.

Marcon

sarahemmm said:

My father and stepmother had mirror wills. Stepmother died Jan 2020, and my understanding was that probate was not required at that point because everything passed to her husband (my father). Solicitor was involved, probate was not requested by her executors (her 2 children).

Now (Oct 2023) the solicitors have written to my father to sign various declarations in order to grant probate. On investigation, this is apparently so that some shares can be transferred into my father's name.

My question: is this necessary?

My father is 94, and has poor memory. He is being asked to sign that his wife had no other bank accounts than their joint ones, and had not made any gifts in the two years before she died. He thinks this is the case, but from knowledge of the situation it may well not be so.

Secondary question: If he signs the forms as suggested, does this prevent any checks on gifts/accounts when he dies and we execute probate on his will? (I am an additional executor on his will, with his stepchildren.)

Final question: The request for probate states that my father is requesting probate, and that one of his stepdaughters is NOT requesting probate. What is going on here?

Are the solicitors acting for the executors, or acting for your father?

Linton

Marcon said:

sarahemmm said:

My father and stepmother had mirror wills. Stepmother died Jan 2020, and my understanding was that probate was not required at that point because everything passed to her husband (my father). Solicitor was involved, probate was not requested by her executors (her 2 children).

Now (Oct 2023) the solicitors have written to my father to sign various declarations in order to grant probate. On investigation, this is apparently so that some shares can be transferred into my father's name.

My question: is this necessary?

My father is 94, and has poor memory. He is being asked to sign that his wife had no other bank accounts than their joint ones, and had not made any gifts in the two years before she died. He thinks this is the case, but from knowledge of the situation it may well not be so.

Secondary question: If he signs the forms as suggested, does this prevent any checks on gifts/accounts when he dies and we execute probate on his will? (I am an additional executor on his will, with his stepchildren.)

Final question: The request for probate states that my father is requesting probate, and that one of his stepdaughters is NOT requesting probate. What is going on here?

Are the solicitors acting for the executors, or acting for your father?

Good point, I had assumed that father was an executor.

Linton

Could the shares have been jointly owned and so not the responsibility of the executor?

sarahemmm

Thank you for your comments, Linton and Marcon.

It appears that my father is also an executor, since the solicitors' letter states that it is he who is 'requesting probate'. How would we know if they are acting for him or for the executors? (He and my stepmother used them for creating the wills in the first place.)

I would expect that the shares were owned jointly, since it appears that everything else was joint (possibly excepting some premium bonds*). What difference does this make for probate, and for the current situation?

I wasn't aware that it was possible for executors not to act jointly. Are there any implications here that I should consider?

* Premium bonds: I was originally an executor on my stepmother's will as well as on my father's, together with her two children. Subsequently they each wrote a codicil, which among other changes, removed me as executor from her will. I was not formally informed of this, but was aware. So I was surprised to get a letter from the solicitors, asking me to sign a form 'as an executor', to allow release/transfer of premium bonds. I took advice, and did not sign the form. I don't know what has happened to the bonds subsequently. The form I was asked to sign appeared to be from NS&I, and listed me as an executor - does that mean that the original will had been lodged with the Probate Office?

Linton

When one owner of jointly held shares, property and as far as I know, anything else, dies full ownership passes automatically to the survivor. The will cannot change this. So I think your father needs probate to remove your step mother from the list of shareholders. It is not a concern of the step daughters since they have no authority over what are now your fathers shares.

Premium bonds are different, they cannot be held jointly.