PCN at Wetherspoons non pay and display

SiliconChip

I've received a Euro Car Parks PCN Notice to Keeper relating to my local Wetherspoons pub. I've looked at previous threads for 'Spoons PCNs and they seem to be where the car park is pay abd display and the fee either wasn't paid or the time ran out.

In this pub there is no charge for parking, instead you need to enter the vehicle's registration number on a screen at the bar which then gives access until 23:59 that day. In this case the PCN Contravention states "Your vehicle was not authorised to park", implying (although not explicitly saying) that the registration wasn't entered.

As per the sticky my first step is to complain to the pub (most likely in person to start with), but I'm unsure whether my complaint should say that it's possible that I accidentally omitted to enter the reg or if it should be a more general complaint about the need to go through the process and the unfairness of the charge. Any guidance from the experts would be helpful, thanks.

KeithP

SiliconChip said:

As per the sticky my first step is to complain to the pub (most likely in person to start with), but I'm unsure whether my complaint should say that it's possible that I accidentally omitted to enter the reg or if it should be a more general complaint about the need to go through the process and the unfairness of the charge. Any guidance from the experts would be helpful, thanks.

Or the third option... you did enter the registration into the machine and the machine, for whatever reason, failed to record it properly.

UncleThomasCobley

Can you prove that you were a patron of the pub on the day? If so, use that as ammunition and complain, whether you did enter your reg or forgot to do so, to say that if they do not get their agents to cancel the PCN, you, your friends, family and colleagues will never give them any business in the future as they run the risk of an additional bill for £100 every time they spend money there.

Make them realise that the loss of custom from just a few people will cost them much more than it will cost you if you were to pay the speculative invoice from an unregulated private parking company. Also, as part of Plan A, write to your MP and ask them to intervene.

You may want to go on social media and highlight to any prospective customers that they run the risk of being sucker-punched with a £100 charge for visiting this pub.

You certainly don't mention in your Plan B appeal that you "accidentally" omitted to enter your reg. It is much more likely anyway that their equipment was faulty on the day. Is it even very obvious from the usually rubbish ECP signage that you had to even enter your reg?

3piece-wheel

Never seen anyone put money in my local Spoons ECP parking meter and not seen anything about parking on the bar either. Sure the manager will cancel it for you  if you ask nicely.

SiliconChip

KeithP said:

SiliconChip said:

As per the sticky my first step is to complain to the pub (most likely in person to start with), but I'm unsure whether my complaint should say that it's possible that I accidentally omitted to enter the reg or if it should be a more general complaint about the need to go through the process and the unfairness of the charge. Any guidance from the experts would be helpful, thanks.

Or the third option... you did enter the registration into the machine and the machine, for whatever reason, failed to record it properly.

Good plan, I hadn't thought directly of that but I did wonder if the staff can interrogate the database of registrations entered there, in which case they'd see many previous occasions where I did do it.

SiliconChip

UncleThomasCobley said:

Can you prove that you were a patron of the pub on the day? If so, use that as ammunition and complain, whether you did enter your reg or forgot to do so, to say that if they do not get their agents to cancel the PCN, you, your friends, family and colleagues will never give them any business in the future as they run the risk of an additional bill for £100 every time they spend money there.

...

You certainly don't mention in your Plan B appeal that you "accidentally" omitted to enter your reg. It is much more likely anyway that their equipment was faulty on the day. Is it even very obvious from the usually rubbish ECP signage that you had to even enter your reg?

I can indeed show that I was a customer on that day, thanks for reminding me to check the account for the card that I used.

I'm not sure that the signage outside is particularly clear on what to do, but the signs on the pads at the bar are, although obviously you'd have to notice them first. They seem to be in use at several of the pubs that I go to ('Spoons and other chains) so if I'm driving I try to ensure I'm aware that I need to do it, so maybe the faulty equipment option could in fact be correct.

UncleThomasCobley

SiliconChip said:

I can indeed show that I was a customer on that day, thanks for reminding me to check the account for the card that I used.

I'm not sure that the signage outside is particularly clear on what to do, but the signs on the pads at the bar are, although obviously you'd have to notice them first. They seem to be in use at several of the pubs that I go to ('Spoons and other chains) so if I'm driving I try to ensure I'm aware that I need to do it, so maybe the faulty equipment option could in fact be correct.

So, if they were not "noticeable", do you think that would acceptable? Is it "noticeable" that the rubbish ECP signs actually state that you must enter your reg at the bar? 

Get your head around the fact that a contract by conduct can only be enforceable if the terms are "noticeable". ECP do not have a habit of producing signs with "noticeable" terms and conditions.

Umkomaas

Signs 'on the bar' are not likely to be contractual (especially if it's some 'Spoons word processed A4 job). The purported contract between you and ECP is the signage in the car park.  Take close up photos so we can read them. Did you enter the car park during evening darkness?  If so, are the signs directly illuminated?  Take other pictures (without flash) in similar light conditions if the parking event was in fading light/darkness. 

SiliconChip

Good outcome, I called in at the pub (as it's next to the garage where my car was being serviced today) and spoke to the bar manager who was happy to agree to email ECP to cancel the notice once I showed her on my banking app that I had made a purchase on that day. Thanks for the advice, hopefully I won't need to go to plan B on this or any other occasion.

Umkomaas

SiliconChip said:

Good outcome, I called in at the pub (as it's next to the garage where my car was being serviced today) and spoke to the bar manager who was happy to agree to email ECP to cancel the notice once I showed her on my banking app that I had made a purchase on that day. Thanks for the advice, hopefully I won't need to go to plan B on this or any other occasion.

That's good news. But, you need to keep on top of this to make sure the cancellation is effected. We've seen previous examples of 'cancellations' not being communicated, with busy staff forgetting to do so. Best way is, after a few days, open the ECP website, going to their 'Pay My PCN' (or whatever they call it) as if to pay (obv don't!), where you can check the current status of the charge. If it's shown as 'cancelled', or 'not available' (or similar words), screenshot it and keep for posterity - for at least the next 6 years. 

Did you get confirmation from the bar manager in writing?  That would be very good evidence for you should this go pear-shaped. See if you can get them to confirm it to you by email, again, for posterity.

Coupon-mad

Very good news. LAN A strikes again!

Check on the PPC's website next week that it shows as £0 due, as you can't be sure until that happens