Is 8.1 Billion too much for energy firms to hold of customer money?

born_again

stu12345_2 said:

subjecttocontract said:

I'm a few hundred quid in credit, pretty much what would be expected this time of year. I don't see any problems with it. This is someone trying to find a problem that doesn't exist.

that few hundred quid could be in an interest bearing short term  cash account making you money.
in the same way the energy companies are enjoying your money.

But your talking pennies even at todays rates unless it tied up, which is not much good.

ArbitraryRandom

stu12345_2 said:

50 p meters will solve anyone being short for when their variable bill comes in 
all we need is for the meters to accept debit cards every week.
 instead.
pay as you go sorted.

You do you - but I'm not convinced switching from predictable monthly payments to a variable bill with my power being shut off if I can't pay an unexpectedly high bill is the right option for me (or the majority). 

QrizB

stu12345_2 said:

50 p meters will solve anyone being short for when their variable bill comes in 
all we need is for the meters to accept debit cards every week.
 instead.
pay as you go sorted.

That is literally how smart prepayment works, without the 50ps.

I suggested it to you earlier in the thread:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80331938/#Comment_80331938

MattMattMattUK

stu12345_2 said:

50 p meters will solve anyone being short for when their variable bill comes in 

70% of the population is cashless, or near cashless now, collecting coins from meters would be prohibitively expensive and would hugely push up cost for everyone. 

stu12345_2 said:

all we need is for the meters to accept debit cards every week.
 instead.

Smart pre-payment meters can be topped up online using a card, however adding card payment systems to the meter itself would add a huge expense and require the meters were connected to the internet, not just the low speed data network, the whole system would need to be reengineered and meters the cost of the integrated card meters would be in the tens of billions of pounds range.

stu12345_2 said:

pay as you go sorted.

It would be pay as you go destroyed, not "sorted".

wolvoman

Jonboy_1984 said:

Personally I am incredibly angry that I am/have been paying a much increased standing charge to cover the credit balances of those who chose to chase the lowest cost financially unstable operators.

This game of privatise the profits, nationalise the loses is a blight on the uk economy.

Frankly credit balance should either be ring-fenced, or customers should lose them if their choice of supplier goes bust, and it should be clear when you sign up to a supplier which game you are agreeing to.

Ridiculous and selfish.
I’ve little to no doubt you’d have a completely different view had you lost a credit balance yourself by the rules you’re suggesting should have been in place.

As to your comment on socialising losses, when energy companies failed back in 2021/22 all customers were reimbursed their credit balances whilst shareholders were wiped out (and directors lost their jobs). The opposite of your suggestion.

As to profits being privatised, nonsense. We even have the spectacle of a Tory government slapping windfall taxes onto profits.

Qyburn

dealyboy said:

It is paying in advance. How many of us pay in advance for things? I can only think of one, season tickets for travel, but then the effective unit travel price is discounted.

Pretty much any travel ticket is paid in advance.

wild666

Jonboy_1984 said:

Personally I am incredibly angry that I am/have been paying a much increased standing charge to cover the credit balances of those who chose to chase the lowest cost financially unstable operators.

This game of privatise the profits, nationalise the loses is a blight on the uk economy.

Frankly credit balance should either be ring-fenced, or customers should lose them if their choice of supplier goes bust, and it should be clear when you sign up to a supplier which game you are agreeing to.

Then people wouldn't want too keep a large credit in their energy accounts, like I did until 2019, thinking that if I really needed to use a lot of gas the credit would cover it. 
The most a person should have in credit is one months payment, then if things go belly up and they were to lose any credit it would only be one months payment, whether it's £50 or £500.

[Deleted User]

The most a person should have in credit is one months payment, then if things go belly up and they were to lose any credit it would only be one months payment, whether it's £50 or £500.

Are you suggesting a varying credit balance or 1/12 of the annual cost? The latter would leave suppliers with a lot of potential debt. 

dealyboy

@markinsaid:

@stu12345_2 said:

@subjecttocontract said:

I'm a few hundred quid in credit, pretty much what would be expected this time of year. I don't see any problems with it. This is someone trying to find a problem that doesn't exist.

that few hundred quid could be in an interest bearing short term  cash account making you money.
in the same way the energy companies are enjoying your money.

Or more people having to put it on the CC or get payday loans because they spent it all on the kids over the summer, Its why most people like fixed DD's

@ArbitraryRandom said:

stu12345_2 said:

50 p meters will solve anyone being short for when their variable bill comes in 
all we need is for the meters to accept debit cards every week.
 instead.
pay as you go sorted.

You do you - but I'm not convinced switching from predictable monthly payments to a variable bill with my power being shut off if I can't pay an unexpectedly high bill is the right option for me (or the majority). 

So why do 'most people like fixed DD's' ... 'the majority'. Is this actually true? I find it hard to believe IMHO.

My experience with fixed or 'static' DDs has been almost entirely bad. ...
- Historically Symbio grossly inflated my payments to 4x my previous winter monthly costs.
- IIRC suppliers invariably use old annual usage data, whether inherited or not, and is slow to change.
- Even when a change is made to the DD sometimes it is suddenly reset.

Are we really saying that over 50% are feckless, or cannot cope with varying payments, or are so poor that an 'unexpected' high payment would leave their finances in collapse, or are so rich that they are happy to leave average payments to their suppliers, or are not interested in saving money?

What is wrong with me? Paying for what I use when (after) I use it (MVDD) is so obviously the best way to be ... but I know I'm not the only one who is mad, though we may be in the minority.

ArbitraryRandom

dealyboy said:

@markinsaid:

@stu12345_2 said:

@subjecttocontract said:

I'm a few hundred quid in credit, pretty much what would be expected this time of year. I don't see any problems with it. This is someone trying to find a problem that doesn't exist.

that few hundred quid could be in an interest bearing short term  cash account making you money.
in the same way the energy companies are enjoying your money.

Or more people having to put it on the CC or get payday loans because they spent it all on the kids over the summer, Its why most people like fixed DD's

@ArbitraryRandom said:

stu12345_2 said:

50 p meters will solve anyone being short for when their variable bill comes in 
all we need is for the meters to accept debit cards every week.
 instead.
pay as you go sorted.

You do you - but I'm not convinced switching from predictable monthly payments to a variable bill with my power being shut off if I can't pay an unexpectedly high bill is the right option for me (or the majority). 

So why do 'most people like fixed DD's' ... 'the majority'. Is this actually true? I find it hard to believe IMHO.

You can always ask Martin's team where they got their info from:

The most common type of Direct Debit are 'fixed' monthly direct debits... While it causes many frustrations, if the standard monthly fixed direct debits didn’t exist, it’s the type of thing I’d be calling for energy firms to introduce. Smoothing out your costs over a year is a big boon for budgeting and done right should make life easier. So if it isn’t an issue for you, stick with it. 

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/lower-energy-direct-debits/

And for me it's exactly that - In winter I have a lot of other things I want to be doing with my cash and it's a more expensive time of year for me in general than the summer, plus I don't like being cold and don't want to have to even think about if I can afford to turn on my heating... and I don't have to because I build up a good amount of credit over the summer months and can enjoy guilt/thought free heating and hot meals (and trips to the pub) when it's cold outside. 

Are we really saying that over 50% are feckless, or cannot cope with varying payments, or are so poor that an 'unexpected' high payment would leave their finances in collapse, or are so rich that they are happy to leave average payments to their suppliers, or are not interested in saving money?

I'm not feckless, could cope with varying payments if I had to, not 'poor' and don't leave the average to my suppliers (I work out what it should be myself), and because I can budget annually for various expenses, don't think this either saves or costs me money compared to variable. 

The question I would have is why you think there's something 'wrong' with people paying monthly if it works for them and feel the need to suggest a range of insulting reasons why someone might do so?