Thoughts on retailers discounting a lot right after selling with no forewarning of sale.

Chrysalis

Aylesbury_Duck said:

"Victim" implies deliberate exploitation, which it isn't.  Yes a retailer knows in advance that they're going to reduce a price, but they have to pick a date and time for it to take effect, and what should they do, suspend all sales until they can enact the change?  I see this as swings and roundabouts.  We benefit from the ability to buy almost anything from anywhere at any time, which presents lots of opportunity for customers but also the scenario where prices are dynamic. You win some, you lose some.

As for the tactic of returning online orders to repurchase at a lower price, that's a right of course, but as you'll see on this board, you run the slight risk of problems with missing parcels, disputed returns, delays and so on.  Depending on the discount you're chasing, that risk may not be one worth taking.  And if lots of people start doing it to the extent the retailer realises it's popular, they're perhaps going to be less likely to run sales in the way they do.

I would say its exactly that, exploitation, it used to be more common to pre announce sales, but flash sales have become trend now.

A middle ground is announce ahead of time, and tell staff to encourage people to buy when the sale starts instead if they about to over pay for an item.

I think if the end result of mass returns was to result in the end of flash sales, I would like it.  Prices are way too volatile now, Amazon price history graphs are an eye opener.  Go back to same price for the duration of stock and have predictable sale seasons.

Ironically this tactic did cost Amazon £500, I brought a phone a few years back for £880, 2 days later it dropped to £520, I told Amazon, lets make it easy refund me the difference, they refused so I took advantage of my consumer rights, their courier picked up the phone and then lost it.  Obviously they had to still refund me.   If only they applied common sense.

Some companies, including some retailers offer retroactive compensation to customers who "just miss out". Usually via price assurances (if we discount within XX days we refund the difference) or automatic adjustments to ordered within past XX days prior to offer.

oldernonethewiser

Chrysalis said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

"Victim" implies deliberate exploitation, which it isn't.  Yes a retailer knows in advance that they're going to reduce a price, but they have to pick a date and time for it to take effect, and what should they do, suspend all sales until they can enact the change?  I see this as swings and roundabouts.  We benefit from the ability to buy almost anything from anywhere at any time, which presents lots of opportunity for customers but also the scenario where prices are dynamic. You win some, you lose some.

As for the tactic of returning online orders to repurchase at a lower price, that's a right of course, but as you'll see on this board, you run the slight risk of problems with missing parcels, disputed returns, delays and so on.  Depending on the discount you're chasing, that risk may not be one worth taking.  And if lots of people start doing it to the extent the retailer realises it's popular, they're perhaps going to be less likely to run sales in the way they do.

I would say its exactly that, exploitation, it used to be more common to pre announce sales, but flash sales have become trend now.

A middle ground is announce ahead of time, and tell staff to encourage people to buy when the sale starts instead if they about to over pay for an item.

I think if the end result of mass returns was to result in the end of flash sales, I would like it.  Prices are way too volatile now, Amazon price history graphs are an eye opener.  Go back to same price for the duration of stock and have predictable sale seasons.

Ironically this tactic did cost Amazon £500, I brought a phone a few years back for £880, 2 days later it dropped to £520, I told Amazon, lets make it easy refund me the difference, they refused so I took advantage of my consumer rights, their courier picked up the phone and then lost it.  Obviously they had to still refund me.   If only they applied common sense.

Some companies, including some retailers offer retroactive compensation to customers who "just miss out". Usually via price assurances (if we discount within XX days we refund the difference) or automatic adjustments to ordered within past XX days prior to offer.

What business would encourage staff to stop people buying things at the regular price? (not over paying)

Your "common sense" and Amazon's, and I suspect other retailers, are not the same thing.

Gavin83

Chrysalis said:

Feels like its really common practice now aka flash sales.  but to me it feels its immoral so as a consumer I am tempted to take advantage of right to return and repurchase on discounted price which I am seeing more and more people do now.

Is this something other money savers on here do themselves if they are a victim of the next day/week post purchase price drop?

The retailer knows ahead of time they about to change the price.

There is no automatic right to return a product. Of course some stores offer this as an extra perk but it’s not guaranteed.

Different for online sales of course but I don’t think that’s what you’re discussing here. Plus you’ll often incur a cost to return anyway.

If it’s a chain store it’s unlikely anyone in that store knows about any impending sales until the day anyway. I used to work in retail and we wouldn’t know the new price of a product until that morning.

RefluentBeans

Chrysalis said:

TELLIT01 said:

If you purchased in a sale and the price went back up the following day, would you feel it was immoral not to go back to the retailer and demand to pay the higher price?  There is no requirement for a retailer to pre-announce a sale.

You can certainly return the item and buy again at the lower price, assuming it's still available when you attempt the new purchase.

No, because its not the same situation, if you think it is, you have understood my point.

The retailer knows its dropping the price the next day but doesnt say "Sales start on XX date",  Instead it sells things at a higher price than they know they about to sell for with the buyer been ignorant of whats about to happen.

I never said was a requirement either, another misunderstanding of my post.  However if we switch over to whats legally allowed, then a consumer can under consumer law return the product, and buy it again under sale, all is good?

Your last point misunderstands consumer law. You can return any item online for any reason, but may be liable for postage; and the refund may deduct money for damage to the product if it’s unreasonable (for example - having a TV on for 13.5 days consecutively is beyond what’s reasonable to make sure the product is as described and what required). This law allows you to examine the product in the same manner that a person shopping in a physical store could.

Legally speaking you haven’t got an automatic right to return any item from store, only if it’s faulty. So this would mean that the only time you could return an item is when it’s faulty. Of course, many shops do have returns policies to extend this to a few days. But the product normally has to be unused, so if you’ve used the product then they are right to refuse your refund for the difference in price.

As others have said - it’s the way the cookie crumbles. Sometimes you buy just before the offer ends, and sometimes you buy just before the offer starts. Annoying? Yes. If the price is too much for what you want to pay, then don’t pay it. 

This is a common thing in retail sales, and often there is a dip in sales before events like Black Friday as consumers don’t want to risk the possibility of a bargain. Plus if they miss the special offer, they are less likely to buy at RRP as they’ll wait for it to go on special offer again. Pros and cons of sales and special offers to both retailers and consumers. 

RefluentBeans

Chrysalis said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

"Victim" implies deliberate exploitation, which it isn't.  Yes a retailer knows in advance that they're going to reduce a price, but they have to pick a date and time for it to take effect, and what should they do, suspend all sales until they can enact the change?  I see this as swings and roundabouts.  We benefit from the ability to buy almost anything from anywhere at any time, which presents lots of opportunity for customers but also the scenario where prices are dynamic. You win some, you lose some.

As for the tactic of returning online orders to repurchase at a lower price, that's a right of course, but as you'll see on this board, you run the slight risk of problems with missing parcels, disputed returns, delays and so on.  Depending on the discount you're chasing, that risk may not be one worth taking.  And if lots of people start doing it to the extent the retailer realises it's popular, they're perhaps going to be less likely to run sales in the way they do.

I would say its exactly that, exploitation, it used to be more common to pre announce sales, but flash sales have become trend now.

A middle ground is announce ahead of time, and tell staff to encourage people to buy when the sale starts instead if they about to over pay for an item.

I think if the end result of mass returns was to result in the end of flash sales, I would like it.  Prices are way too volatile now, Amazon price history graphs are an eye opener.  Go back to same price for the duration of stock and have predictable sale seasons.

Ironically this tactic did cost Amazon £500, I brought a phone a few years back for £880, 2 days later it dropped to £520, I told Amazon, lets make it easy refund me the difference, they refused so I took advantage of my consumer rights, their courier picked up the phone and then lost it.  Obviously they had to still refund me.   If only they applied common sense.

Some companies, including some retailers offer retroactive compensation to customers who "just miss out". Usually via price assurances (if we discount within XX days we refund the difference) or automatic adjustments to ordered within past XX days prior to offer.

Any purchase is a risk. Consumer rights limit the risk to a consumer and ensure retailers don’t pass unnecessary risk to the consumer that they (retailers) should be absorbing. Risk on both sides should be minimised, but consumers can’t (and shouldn’t) just not take on any risk of a purchase I’m afraid. 

It’s also worth noting that you pay what you think something is worth. If you want to buy an iPhone for £1300 you can go to a shop and buy one, but if you think it’s too much for you, you can shop around or not buy it. 

Amazon hasn’t got to tell you when a promotion is coming up. And they certainly haven’t got to refund you for the amount. There’s also a risk that Amazon deducts money from the refund for use - something they can charge for unless it’s faulty. Obviously you got ‘lucky’ with a lost parcel, but there’s no guarantee that they would’ve refunded the full amount if you’ve used it more than necessary. 

Consumer rights are a bare minimum, and they aren’t the magic bullet some people claim. They’re also not spells from Harry Potter which you have to say three times before you get what you want.

born_again

Chrysalis said:

Feels like its really common practice now aka flash sales.  but to me it feels its immoral so as a consumer I am tempted to take advantage of right to return and repurchase on discounted price which I am seeing more and more people do now.

Is this something other money savers on here do themselves if they are a victim of the next day/week post purchase price drop?

The retailer knows ahead of time they about to change the price.

TBH, as most people will know there are certain of the year when odds on prices will drop. 

But end of the day, if you need a product, you need it.


Is it immoral? No, what would you expect them to do knowing say Black Friday is coming up & they are cutting prices? Stop selling products for a couple of weeks?

Would I return one if it went on sale, as it was cheaper after purchase. NO. Life is too short to be messing around. Could work the other way & it's gone up.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Talking of Amazon, they used to refund the difference if the price dropped within 30 days but sadly that policy fizzled out years ago. 

Chrysalis

oldernonethewiser said:

Chrysalis said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

"Victim" implies deliberate exploitation, which it isn't.  Yes a retailer knows in advance that they're going to reduce a price, but they have to pick a date and time for it to take effect, and what should they do, suspend all sales until they can enact the change?  I see this as swings and roundabouts.  We benefit from the ability to buy almost anything from anywhere at any time, which presents lots of opportunity for customers but also the scenario where prices are dynamic. You win some, you lose some.

As for the tactic of returning online orders to repurchase at a lower price, that's a right of course, but as you'll see on this board, you run the slight risk of problems with missing parcels, disputed returns, delays and so on.  Depending on the discount you're chasing, that risk may not be one worth taking.  And if lots of people start doing it to the extent the retailer realises it's popular, they're perhaps going to be less likely to run sales in the way they do.

I would say its exactly that, exploitation, it used to be more common to pre announce sales, but flash sales have become trend now.

A middle ground is announce ahead of time, and tell staff to encourage people to buy when the sale starts instead if they about to over pay for an item.

I think if the end result of mass returns was to result in the end of flash sales, I would like it.  Prices are way too volatile now, Amazon price history graphs are an eye opener.  Go back to same price for the duration of stock and have predictable sale seasons.

Ironically this tactic did cost Amazon £500, I brought a phone a few years back for £880, 2 days later it dropped to £520, I told Amazon, lets make it easy refund me the difference, they refused so I took advantage of my consumer rights, their courier picked up the phone and then lost it.  Obviously they had to still refund me.   If only they applied common sense.

Some companies, including some retailers offer retroactive compensation to customers who "just miss out". Usually via price assurances (if we discount within XX days we refund the difference) or automatic adjustments to ordered within past XX days prior to offer.

What business would encourage staff to stop people buying things at the regular price? (not over paying)

Your "common sense" and Amazon's, and I suspect other retailers, are not the same thing.

I know a few, not every business chases every penny they can get, some pride themselves in other areas, if you dont know off any, john lewis is one such business.

I never really posted my own personal opinion as such, but for me if its over a month gap, I probably wont care, and likewise if its only a small amount of money, I would say the phone example I posted is probably the one time I got annoyed enough by it happening to do something, usually otherwise I dont bother doing anything.

I got a steam deck in September and two-three weeks later they went on sale, didnt do anything, but I know some asked for and got refunds equalling the discount on the uk steam deck discord server.

Chrysalis

born_again said:

Chrysalis said:

Feels like its really common practice now aka flash sales.  but to me it feels its immoral so as a consumer I am tempted to take advantage of right to return and repurchase on discounted price which I am seeing more and more people do now.

Is this something other money savers on here do themselves if they are a victim of the next day/week post purchase price drop?

The retailer knows ahead of time they about to change the price.

TBH, as most people will know there are certain of the year when odds on prices will drop. 

But end of the day, if you need a product, you need it.


Is it immoral? No, what would you expect them to do knowing say Black Friday is coming up & they are cutting prices? Stop selling products for a couple of weeks?

Would I return one if it went on sale, as it was cheaper after purchase. NO. Life is too short to be messing around. Could work the other way & it's gone up.

No I would not expect them to stop selling the product, but you can try and go that extreme if you want if it makes you feel better.

Personally if I knew I had a planned discount coming up in my business, I would yes be telling customers about it in advance or giving it to them early.

Black Friday isnt a flash sale and isnt relevant to the question I asked, its a seasonal sale, and as such people know its a thing that happens every year around a certain date, similar with boxing day.

MattMattMattUK

Chrysalis said:

born_again said:

Chrysalis said:

Feels like its really common practice now aka flash sales.  but to me it feels its immoral so as a consumer I am tempted to take advantage of right to return and repurchase on discounted price which I am seeing more and more people do now.

Is this something other money savers on here do themselves if they are a victim of the next day/week post purchase price drop?

The retailer knows ahead of time they about to change the price.

TBH, as most people will know there are certain of the year when odds on prices will drop. 

But end of the day, if you need a product, you need it.


Is it immoral? No, what would you expect them to do knowing say Black Friday is coming up & they are cutting prices? Stop selling products for a couple of weeks?

Would I return one if it went on sale, as it was cheaper after purchase. NO. Life is too short to be messing around. Could work the other way & it's gone up.

No I would not expect them to stop selling the product, but you can try and go that extreme if you want if it makes you feel better.

Personally if I knew I had a planned discount coming up in my business, I would yes be telling customers about it in advance or giving it to them early.

If a business does that then generally it's sales grind to a halt in the days/weeks ahead, the same thing with pre-announced price drops and the opposite with pre-announced price rises. It is different with small businesses where the relationship with the customer is more personal, but for large companies pre-announcing every sale is a bad idea, flash sales are designed for short term inventory movement and work very well for that. 

Chrysalis said:
Black Friday isnt a flash sale and isnt relevant to the question I asked, its a seasonal sale, and as such people know its a thing that happens every year around a certain date, similar with boxing day.

Black Friday is not in itself, but much of the items sold within it are, retailers will sell a limited number of items at a reduced price (lightning sales on Amazon, John Lewis deliberately restricting on display inventory until after the sale has finished etc.), but likely not the full inventory, they also do not generally pre-announce which products will be discounted, although some always are (Amazon discounting Echo and Fire devices is an example of that). Boxing Day sales are used to clear out old inventory, or make an offer that appears to be a deal but is just them shifting a limited number of devices. 

It is no way immoral to offer flash sales, that is complete hyperbole.