Working out uncrystalised Sipp funds

SVaz

I have a Sipp that is part crystalised,  there is currently around 18% in uncrystallised funds and I am building up a cash/MMF pot to add to it by contributing £80 monthly. 
Charles Stanley don’t differentiate between C and UC in my account.  

I will need to sell some investments when I come to take UFPLS payments so how do I go about it? 

I can’t simply sell 18% of my 3 funds as I think it would be a mix of C and UC?  

I will need £22500 in cash for 3 years income, ( £7500 will keep me under my PA)  approx £10k will be in UC cash already from what I’m currently adding. 

How will I extract the other £12.5k from the mix? 

 I don’t want to have to sell everything to pull out only 18% of it.  
Presumably they can just sell the right percentage by splitting off the UC amounts and selling them if I ask them?  
I’d also rather do it in stages over the next 3 years to lessen the risk if there is a market crash just before I start to take it in 5 years time. 

I know I could just add £10k (net) more cash to the UC side but a. it’s unaffordable and b. It would still be a problem in the future,   in case anyone suggests it. 

Once I hit 67,  I won’t be touching the fully crystallised pot at all,  well that’s the plan. 

I am also currently contributing £5k annually to another HL Sipp that I plan to crystalise slowly over the 10+ years from age 67 to get at least 10 years extra tax free cash to the tune of £3k a year.   

I’m not contributing the lot to CS because they charge for every crystalisation event so it doesn’t suit my plans. 

I hope someone can understand my ramblings 😉

squirrelpie

I'm surprised Charles Stanley don't indicate how much is crystallised and how much is not. I don't know how you communicate with them but I'd suggest asking them for how you should indicate which type of investment you want to sell (i.e. crystallised or not or don't care). I'd suggest you should keep the record you were given of how much you have crystallised (I think that's right) to know the exact figure. CS seem to make charges for crystallisation and for regular withdrawals so it may make sense to move the pension to another provider before starting payments or crystallising any more funds.

HL don't charge for withdrawals and keep the pension in two separate pots after crystallisation so things are simpler there.

SVaz

I know how much is in crystallised vs uncrystallised,  it was 18% ish u/c before I started payments in again. 

I’ve messaged them to ask if I can have one of my funds as wholly uncrystallised rather than a percentage of all 4 funds I hold as it’s the one I would sell first and it might grow enough to cover the ufpls along with my future conts.
  I would rather leave the other 3 as wholly crystallised for very long  term growth.
It’s going to be a total pita if they won’t do that. 

Linton

I do not see the problem. Perhaps I have missed something. …

Say you have £100k in a 20% crystallised pension and withdraw £10k taxable.  So £80k uncrystallised 
and £20k crystallised changes to £80k uncrystallised and £10k crystallised.  So you end up with £90k in a 11.11111% crystallised pension.  It makes no difference to the maths which funds you sell - you just choose the ones that match your strategy.

SVaz

But I have No idea how the u/c funds are portioned within my overall funds. I don’t know if it’s 18% of each of my 4 funds or if they can apportion them to one ( or possibly two) of my choosing.   

2 funds make up 38% each of my portfolio,  one is 14% and my MM fund is 10%  
I’ve changed my investments about too over the last 18 months. 
The MMF fund I will want to sell to make up some/ most of the rest of the UFPLS total amount is 10% of my current pot.  I don’t want to have to change that percentage by too much, therefore if only 18% of it is u/c, it won’t cover what I will need.
I want all my uncrystalised funds in my MM  fund - so I can sell it in 2026/27 plus the cash ( or a mmf if rates are still good then) that I’m currently adding - both will eventually make up 22.5% of the whole pot if it’s £100k, which is what I’m aiming for (12% will be the added cash) .  
What I DONT want,  is to have to sell most? All? of my other funds ( 2 x  100% equities and VLS 80)  in order to get at the required £13k or so of U/C funds,  that could really impact long term growth. 
I’m hoping I can specify that I ONLY  want to sell the uncrystalised portion of the funds if they won’t allow the MMF to be wholly U/C, otherwise I’m going to have to rethink the whole plan.  

I’m really confusing myself now. 

NoMore

You are confusing yourself, your trying to think of it separate pots for crystallised or not. Its not like that, its just your whole portfolio is considered at once. 82% of the entire value is crystallised and 18% of the entire value is uncrystallised. It doesn't matter what you choose to sell to get your rest of the 18% uncrystallised out as its the whole portfolio that's considered not the individual holdings. So just sell exactly what you want to cash to get the 18% uncrystallised and that's it, You don't have to worry about that you have to sell this fund because it might be crystallised, that's not how it works in this system. 

Other providers do split things into two pots but your provider doesn't.

SVaz

Also, if I do transfer the funds into my HL Sipp without selling everything ( it seems very unwise to sell £80k of funds in one go and have to rebuy them all again in the new configuration).
I assume I will end up with the crystalised 82% of the Money market fund in the drawdown pot - where I don’t want it and will have to sell it and buy my other funds back. 

Plus 18% of each of the other 3 funds will be in the U/C pot, so £12000 of funds I really don’t need or want to sell and replace with the MM fund.  

SVaz

Thanks No More .
Funnily enough I’ve just been googling and an explanation of ‘Notional split’ , along with an example like mine came up with Interactive Investor.
That was exactly like what you’ve just explained so has put my mind at rest.

So to clarify - I can get to £12k in my MM fund and sell it to cash in 2026 and use it as UFPLS alongside the UC cash I’m building up without having to mess about. 

Plus if I do decide to transfer, it would have to be to II or another company who does a ‘Notional Split’ .