Seller hasn't updated EPC after major renovations - why?

Bonniepurple

ProDave said:

Probably because the EPC system is "broken"

I know someone that did lots of updates, in particular he vastly improved the insulation and air tightness of his property which showed in much reduced heating bills.

When he was getting ready to sell, he showed the assessor details of the upgrades he had done, including full specification and photographs of much of the work in progress.

The assessor ignored it all and made all the standard assumptions for the age of the property.

It made no difference to his sale as few people take any notice of the EPC, but this just showed to me what a farce the present system is on an "old" house.

A new build is about the only time the assessor does take notice of the build specification but that is a full SAP not an RDSAP.

We replaced the 40 year old Baxi Bermuda back boiler with a combi boiler, redid the lights and installed new double glazing.  The estate agent advised us to use the old EPC as the only way we would have got into the next category was with heat pumps and solar panels.

dannim12345

When I sold my house I didn’t bother updating the EPC as it was still in date, we had done work like loft insulation, boiler and lighting do it might have gone up but the estate agent didn’t even suggest it. 

anselld

EPC is a flawed system and unless you need to rent it out most buyers treat it as an irrelevance.
If you are interested then read the listed recommendations and then arrange another viewing to see which have / have not actually been done.

ThisIsWeird

currantbun2 said:

Maybe not! It has new plumbing, and rewiring, and a solar thermal panel on roof. Some internal walls have been removed to make it open plan. The heating system uses oil due to not being on the gas grid. I have no idea about the external walls.
I was assuming he would have insulated the loft but who knows.... It has been used as a holiday let so perhaps he hasn't bothered too much about energy efficiency.
For the amount of money he is asking for I would at least expect an up to date EPC!

Loft insulation is a non-issue; if it needs increasing, it's a matter of a few £undred, and a morning's work.
The important stuff is insulating the external walls, and possibly the floors. You can assume that this has not been done, or else they'd be shouting about it.
Ask them.
If, as we can guess, it hasn't been upgraded, it would have been a missed opportunity as removing internal walls is usually disruptive and messy, so it would have been the best time to do it.
But hey. As said above, visuals still win.
The large glass doors shouldn't be a major factor.

ComicGeek

currantbun2 said:

Maybe not! It has new plumbing, and rewiring, and a solar thermal panel on roof. Some internal walls have been removed to make it open plan. The heating system uses oil due to not being on the gas grid. I have no idea about the external walls.
I was assuming he would have insulated the loft but who knows.... It has been used as a holiday let so perhaps he hasn't bothered too much about energy efficiency.
For the amount of money he is asking for I would at least expect an up to date EPC!

A solar thermal panel (if that's what it is, and not solar electric?) is going to cost more in maintenance to keep it running each year than what it will save in energy costs - an outdated and complicated system that is a huge waste of money.

All show and no substance - which might reflect the rest of the property, who knows... 

pinkshoes

Surely it depends what updates they've done?

A developer bought my grandparents dated 1930s house and 'did it up'. She replaced the original boiler and knocked a wall down to open it up downstairs, and replaced the dated conservatory.

But... she ripped out all carpets and underlay and painted all the floor boards white, and  did absolutely nothing to address the very poor insulation in the house! The house was always freezing! The room above the garage has 3 outside walls and was always hideously cold to sleep in so without carpets it will now be even worse!

The EPC is still the same as the original one (rubbish!) so I think she was probably told it hasn't made the next category.

RHemmings

pinkshoes said:

Surely it depends what updates they've done?

A developer bought my grandparents dated 1930s house and 'did it up'. She replaced the original boiler and knocked a wall down to open it up downstairs, and replaced the dated conservatory.

But... she ripped out all carpets and underlay and painted all the floor boards white, and  did absolutely nothing to address the very poor insulation in the house! The house was always freezing! The room above the garage has 3 outside walls and was always hideously cold to sleep in so without carpets it will now be even worse!

The EPC is still the same as the original one (rubbish!) so I think she was probably told it hasn't made the next category.

Just a minor point - when I said above that the 'flipped' houses I've seen have been all about the visuals and not the efficiency, the 'flipped' houses I've seen have typically had new boilers. And, I suppose, fancy looking but seemingly a bit dim low energy lighting. But, that's about it. I think. 

currantbun2

Thanks all for the input, very interesting. I think that must be right that the external walls haven't been done or else they would have a new epc. Re the solar panel thing, it's one of those made of tubes which I believe heat the water system?? But yes it is all show with a beautiful kitchen island, all open plan etc etc.

As the house has been used as a holiday let it's perfectly possible nobody has spent a winter in the place since it was renovated! We would prob put in a solid fuel stove just so as not to be completley dependent on oil/ electric heating. Or I guess there's always the old heatpump thingy.

None of this would bother me at all were it not for the exorbitant price of this house, which in no way reflects local economics (not that any prices do) and aimed at retiring folk with tons of house profit! The house is still on rightmove so it looks as though the other offer hasn't been accepted and he is holding out for more!
We'll see what happens as winter looms.....

pinkshoes

RHemmings said:

pinkshoes said:

Surely it depends what updates they've done?

A developer bought my grandparents dated 1930s house and 'did it up'. She replaced the original boiler and knocked a wall down to open it up downstairs, and replaced the dated conservatory.

But... she ripped out all carpets and underlay and painted all the floor boards white, and  did absolutely nothing to address the very poor insulation in the house! The house was always freezing! The room above the garage has 3 outside walls and was always hideously cold to sleep in so without carpets it will now be even worse!

The EPC is still the same as the original one (rubbish!) so I think she was probably told it hasn't made the next category.

Just a minor point - when I said above that the 'flipped' houses I've seen have been all about the visuals and not the efficiency, the 'flipped' houses I've seen have typically had new boilers. And, I suppose, fancy looking but seemingly a bit dim low energy lighting. But, that's about it. I think. 

I guess a boiler counts as a "visual" because it's the one thing everyone always looks at!

If she'd left the ancient 60+ year old boiler in (which worked well) then people would not have been impressed. 

Insulating walls is something that costs money but people don't see, so I guess some developers are just hoping the EPC is perhaps ignored?

I would have loved to have bought my grandad's house if Mr P would let us move, but there is no way I'd live there without some sort of wall insulation! It'll be even colder without carpets now.

As karma would have it, the £250k price increase she asked for when flipping it wasn't successful, nor was dropping it by £50k, then next door put theirs on the market at £100k less than that (same house but IMO nicer decor and insulation!) so it would appear she has now decided to live in it. Hope she's got lots of money to pay the heating bill over winter!!