CN from Leeds Bradford Airport

stockwell_2

Hello, I wondered if any of you great folk would be able to spare a few minutes to help advice me on a CN (Charge Notice) which I have received from Leeds Bradford Airport for stopping for around 1 minute while trying to find my way into pre-paid Mid-Stay Parking. I don't deny being the driver, nor stopping for a short period of time. I did this after entering a one-way road which led to some barriers which seemed to have been marked as Mid Stay 2, as opposed to "Mid Stay" where I was pre-booked. I was therefore a bit confused, stopped the car as I tried to work out if I'd come in the right way, or whether MidStay 2 was different to Midstay. I had pre-paid for the parking, no-one got in or out of the car or anything like that, and it was purely to safely navigate and find my way - something I couldnt have done while moving.

Have I got a case and if so, what are my arguments? 
Should I reach out to LBA first, or immediately fill in the appeal form? 
If they reject the appeal, should I proceed to court, and how does this work?

The charge is only £60 if paid immediately, but it feels entirely unjust and unreasonable. 

I've found some other conversations on here about similar and wasn't sure around a few things - firstly, is stopping for 1 minute too long to just a "short stop"? Also they are trying to enforce a CN for Stopping, rather than Parking. Does this affect anything?

Your help would be greatly appreciated!

born_again

LBA is surrounded by roads with red no stopping lines. 
Well well sign posted as here

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.8727141,-1.6641008,3a,75y,153.11h,98.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqp5rOoV9ecdskdOCMWhQ3w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

This is to stop people dropping off people. 

B789

born_again said:

LBA is surrounded by roads with red no stopping lines. 
Well well sign posted as here

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.8727141,-1.6641008,3a,75y,153.11h,98.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqp5rOoV9ecdskdOCMWhQ3w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

This is to stop people dropping off people. 

So what? What has the above got to do with the issue the OP is asking about? As the PPC is an agent of the airport, they can paint lines of any colour or hue and invent whatever rules they want. It is private land covered by bylaws.

So... getting back to the original questions, whilst the PCN (NtK) is for an alleged contravention at LBA, it is not from them but from their PPC agent which is an unregulated private parking company. The very first rule if you are dealing with an NtK from an unregulated private parking company on "non-relevant land" (land covered by bylaws amongst other things) is to never reveal the identity of the driver as you have in your OP.

The PPC has no idea who the driver is, even if they have CCTV because they don't have a magic database with an image and identity details of everyone in the country. So, as long as they don't know the identity of the "driver" and the NtK is not PoFA compliant, they cannot transfer liability for it to the RK.

Whilst this is defendable anyway because you were not "parked", the above arguments should, in theory, make this go away relatively early on in the process. However, you are dealing with intellectually malnourished ex-clamper scammers and they will do their utmost to try and get any low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to capitulate and fund their scam. With a bit of luck and having thoroughly read the Newbies/FAQ thread, you will not be that low-hanging fruit.

The fact that you are offered a bribe discount, is only to make it easier and cheaper for the scammers to get the low-hanging fruit to fund the scam. So, ignore the bribe discount.

As advised int he Newbies/FAQ thread, always try Plan A first. A complaint to the owners of LBA is a good first start as they have been known to tell their PPC agents to back-off. You may also want to ask your MP to intervene too.

Plan B is the appeal to the PPC as the Rk without identifying the driver and informing them to cease and desist by cancelling the PCN as they can only chase the driver, not you, the RK.

Coupon-mad

Should I reach out to LBA first?

Yes.  Complain.  Be angry about this harassment.  Make it clear their signs are terrible and the driver only stopped for seconds to get their bearings.

DO NOT IMPLY WHO THE DRIVER WAS.

How to deal with a court claim is fully explained already in the second post of the NEWBIES thread.

born_again

B789 said:

born_again said:

LBA is surrounded by roads with red no stopping lines. 
Well well sign posted as here

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.8727141,-1.6641008,3a,75y,153.11h,98.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqp5rOoV9ecdskdOCMWhQ3w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

This is to stop people dropping off people. 

So what? What has the above got to do with the issue the OP is asking about? As the PPC is an agent of the airport, they can paint lines of any colour or hue and invent whatever rules they want. It is private land covered by bylaws.

So... getting back to the original questions, whilst the PCN (NtK) is for an alleged contravention at LBA, it is not from them but from their PPC agent which is an unregulated private parking company. The very first rule if you are dealing with an NtK from an unregulated private parking company on "non-relevant land" (land covered by bylaws amongst other things) is to never reveal the identity of the driver as you have in your OP.

The PPC has no idea who the driver is, even if they have CCTV because they don't have a magic database with an image and identity details of everyone in the country. So, as long as they don't know the identity of the "driver" and the NtK is not PoFA compliant, they cannot transfer liability for it to the RK.

Whilst this is defendable anyway because you were not "parked", the above arguments should, in theory, make this go away relatively early on in the process. However, you are dealing with intellectually malnourished ex-clamper scammers and they will do their utmost to try and get any low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to capitulate and fund their scam. With a bit of luck and having thoroughly read the Newbies/FAQ thread, you will not be that low-hanging fruit.

The fact that you are offered a bribe discount, is only to make it easier and cheaper for the scammers to get the low-hanging fruit to fund the scam. So, ignore the bribe discount.

As advised int he Newbies/FAQ thread, always try Plan A first. A complaint to the owners of LBA is a good first start as they have been known to tell their PPC agents to back-off. You may also want to ask your MP to intervene too.

Plan B is the appeal to the PPC as the Rk without identifying the driver and informing them to cease and desist by cancelling the PCN as they can only chase the driver, not you, the RK.

Pointing out that this is a well signed area stating what you can not do. 
They have even added camera enforcement area now.

While I do not agree with the way some of these parking companies operate. When it is clearly signed & red lines area's are in the highway code.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/road-markings

Then this is down to the user to understand the rules & pay for their mistakes.

B789

born_again said:

B789 said:

born_again said:

LBA is surrounded by roads with red no stopping lines. 
Well well sign posted as here

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.8727141,-1.6641008,3a,75y,153.11h,98.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqp5rOoV9ecdskdOCMWhQ3w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

This is to stop people dropping off people. 

So what? What has the above got to do with the issue the OP is asking about? As the PPC is an agent of the airport, they can paint lines of any colour or hue and invent whatever rules they want. It is private land covered by bylaws.

So... getting back to the original questions, whilst the PCN (NtK) is for an alleged contravention at LBA, it is not from them but from their PPC agent which is an unregulated private parking company. The very first rule if you are dealing with an NtK from an unregulated private parking company on "non-relevant land" (land covered by bylaws amongst other things) is to never reveal the identity of the driver as you have in your OP.

The PPC has no idea who the driver is, even if they have CCTV because they don't have a magic database with an image and identity details of everyone in the country. So, as long as they don't know the identity of the "driver" and the NtK is not PoFA compliant, they cannot transfer liability for it to the RK.

Whilst this is defendable anyway because you were not "parked", the above arguments should, in theory, make this go away relatively early on in the process. However, you are dealing with intellectually malnourished ex-clamper scammers and they will do their utmost to try and get any low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree to capitulate and fund their scam. With a bit of luck and having thoroughly read the Newbies/FAQ thread, you will not be that low-hanging fruit.

The fact that you are offered a bribe discount, is only to make it easier and cheaper for the scammers to get the low-hanging fruit to fund the scam. So, ignore the bribe discount.

As advised int he Newbies/FAQ thread, always try Plan A first. A complaint to the owners of LBA is a good first start as they have been known to tell their PPC agents to back-off. You may also want to ask your MP to intervene too.

Plan B is the appeal to the PPC as the Rk without identifying the driver and informing them to cease and desist by cancelling the PCN as they can only chase the driver, not you, the RK.

Pointing out that this is a well signed area stating what you can not do. 
They have even added camera enforcement area now.

While I do not agree with the way some of these parking companies operate. When it is clearly signed & red lines area's are in the highway code.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/road-markings

Then this is down to the user to understand the rules & pay for their mistakes.

We all know how they paint DYLs and then proceed to try and extort money from victims just for stopping momentarily when in fact the Highway Code specifically allows stopping for loading and unloading on DYLs.
 
So what if the Highway Code has a reference to DRLs. The airport land and roads are not public highway. They are private land covered by bylaws. Are you suggesting that the intellectually malnourished PPC is in any way an "authority" that can impose "penalties" on someone just because they have erected some signs and painted coloured lines on the roads?

So, how do you suggest they get around the issue of identifying the driver? We already know that they cannot hold the RK liable. Are you an apologist for the vermin that infest private land?

You know very well that they are unregulated, ex-clamper, thugs and extortionists operating in an incestuous cartel against the low-hanging fruit on the gullible tree.

Coupon-mad

The keeper can't be held liable, so make sure the driver is not implied in any complaint (or the joke of an 'appeal' farce).

Not that appeal has any chance of succeeding but that's not a reason to pay what MPs called an 'outrageous scam' to make it go away.

Bazarius

The airport roadways are covered under its byelaws .   No need for contractual licence to pass on the roads  .   The Byelaws under 5.16 stipulates 

5.16 Observe Signs No person shall without reasonable excuse when on foot or whilst using, driving or propelling a Vehicle, neglect, fail or refuse to comply with an indication or direction given by:- 5.16.1 A Sign erected and displayed by or with the consent of the Airport Company, placed on or near a private Airport road;

I recently advised a motorist who was at the LBC stage - he had to stop due to an emergency where his partner was having a bad asthma attack that required the vehicle to stop to tend to his partner .   This fits in  the category of  what I believe is a   “Reasonable excuse”  for failing to comply with the no stopping traffic sign.  

He emailed the airport customer services and replied back confirming that the charge will be cancelled and if he gets any further letters demanding the same , he is to contact them again . 

I believe your case fits under the reasonable excuse because if you did not stop you would have caused an RTC . 

Coupon-mad

Bazarius said:

The airport roadways are covered under its byelaws .   No need for contractual licence to pass on the roads  .   The Byelaws under 5.16 stipulates 

5.16 Observe Signs No person shall without reasonable excuse when on foot or whilst using, driving or propelling a Vehicle, neglect, fail or refuse to comply with an indication or direction given by:- 5.16.1 A Sign erected and displayed by or with the consent of the Airport Company, placed on or near a private Airport road;

I recently advised a motorist who was at the LBC stage - he had to stop due to an emergency where his partner was having a bad asthma attack that required the vehicle to stop to tend to his partner .   This fits in  the category of  what I believe is a   “Reasonable excuse”  for failing to comply with the no stopping traffic sign.  

He emailed the airport customer services and replied back confirming that the charge will be cancelled and if he gets any further letters demanding the same , he is to contact them again . 

I believe your case fits under the reasonable excuse because if you did not stop you would have caused an RTC . 

Good first post.  Are you a lawyer?

Welcome to the forum, I like the above approach.  

travelmamma

I am at the preposed Allocation to Small Claims Track stage,
have only stated I am the Registerd Keeper.
what to do now. As above  at LBA  reversing from  mid stay barrier as was not opening.
pre  booked parking  paid in advance.

UncleThomasCobley

@travelmamma, please start your own thread, even if it is for the same location.