Recently emigrated | No notice from PPC | Only rental co. email

B789

Your grandmother needs to tell her credit card company to hold the payment to Enterprise until such time it can be verified that the terms of hire specifically allows them to charge for invoices received from private companies. As I mentioned earlier, no "fine" has been issued from any "authority".

As it is your grandmothers name on the hire agreement, it is she who will receive the NtK. It is she who will need to make the appeal. However, you can redirect her here for the same advise. Or, you can just tell her what to do.

This is still easily sorted. As the NtH will have failed PoFA (as explained in the Newbies/FAQ thread about lease/hire vehicles), she can tell the PPC your name and foreign address as the driver. They cannot actually do anything to you as they have no jurisdiction. Your grandmother will not be liable as the "hirer" as they will have failed to fully comply with PoFA.

Now, you must remember, you are dealing with intellectually malnourished people who are out to scam you for money and they may not comprehend that they have nowhere to go with this and still try it on. However, you know where you are getting the best free advice from and can come back if or when this progresses.

Fruitcake

B789 said:

Your grandmother needs to tell her credit card company to hold the payment to Enterprise until such time it can be verified that the terms of hire specifically allows them to charge for invoices received from private companies. As I mentioned earlier, no "fine" has been issued from any "authority".

As it is your grandmothers name on the hire agreement, it is she who will receive the NtK. It is she who will need to make the appeal. However, you can redirect her here for the same advise. Or, you can just tell her what to do.

This is still easily sorted. As the NtH will have failed PoFA (as explained in the Newbies/FAQ thread about lease/hire vehicles), she can tell the PPC your name and foreign address as the driver. They cannot actually do anything to you as they have no jurisdiction. Your grandmother will not be liable as the "hirer" as they will have failed to fully comply with PoFA.

Now, you must remember, you are dealing with intellectually malnourished people who are out to scam you for money and they may not comprehend that they have nowhere to go with this and still try it on. However, you know where you are getting the best free advice from and can come back if or when this progresses.

I still think it would be better for nan to name the OP as driver, for the OP to confirm they were the driver, then send a data rectification notice once they have received a NTD in their own name.

The card payment is another issue. Hire companies are permitted to charge a fee to deal with a PCN, but the BVRLA does not permit them to pay the charge on behalf of the hirer.

Coupon-mad

FeedThemCake said:

UPDATE: So unfortunately the situation is this: I didn't notice/realise this before but the car rental agreement lists the name of and was signed by my grandma, who agreed to use her credit card for the apparently required liability and insurance purposes at Enterprise.

 the parking charge notice is actually addressed to her,

I just glanced at the top and saw the right last name & assumed it was to me. This is because she agreed to use her credit card for the rental as neither my brother or I have credit cards, though I myself booked and paid for the rental and was the only driver.

So she has her NTH already.

You are not waiting for anything.

She will win either way.  EITHER:

- she appeals (or you do it online for her) using the EdnaBasher wording and saying she WAS NOT the driver but won't be naming that person, or

- she does the above but INCLUDES your name and foreign address as well and tells Smart to transfer liability or cancel the PCN now, because they will lose at POPLA.

Either will work. Smart can't win, as long as she appeals ( NOT YOU).

B789

I think that is what I have basically advised.

B789 said:

Your grandmother needs to tell her credit card company to hold the payment to Enterprise until such time it can be verified that the terms of hire specifically allows them to charge for invoices received from private companies. As I mentioned earlier, no "fine" has been issued from any "authority".

As it is your grandmothers name on the hire agreement, it is she who will receive the NtK. It is she who will need to make the appeal. However, you can redirect her here for the same advise. Or, you can just tell her what to do.

This is still easily sorted. As the NtH will have failed PoFA (as explained in the Newbies/FAQ thread about lease/hire vehicles), she can tell the PPC your name and foreign address as the driver. They cannot actually do anything to you as they have no jurisdiction. Your grandmother will not be liable as the "hirer" as they will have failed to fully comply with PoFA.

Now, you must remember, you are dealing with intellectually malnourished people who are out to scam you for money and they may not comprehend that they have nowhere to go with this and still try it on. However, you know where you are getting the best free advice from and can come back if or when this progresses.

Coupon-mad

Agreed.  Singing from the same hymn sheet!

FeedThemCake

Thank you all for the helpful and informative replies!

Having browsed through POFA 2012, I just want to confirm a few points with you guys, just to make sure I understand correctly:

1 – The hirer is the registered keeper of the vehicle during the timeframe of the alleged parking violation. I figured this is why in the appeal letters, people identify themselves as the keeper (“I confirm that as the hirer of this vehicle, I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition…”). So the vehicle’s keeper would be my gran according to the rental contract.

2 – The PPC initially sends a Notice to Keeper (NtK) to the rental company, who are generally regarded as the vehicle’s keeper but not for the circumstances of the parking violation, which is why the rental co. passes on the hirer’s details to the PCC. This gets the rental co. out of the loop and establishes contact between the hirer (the keeper for the circumstance in question) and the PCC.

3 – The rental company notifies the hirer about the parking charge (the email I got from Enterprise), after which a Notice to Hirer (NtH) is supposed to follow, directly from the PPC (which I’m still expecting). By the way, if someone can briefly clarify if there is a meaningful difference between a Notice to Keeper and Notice to Hirer, or if in my case they are synonymous, I would appreciate it.

If I am not mistaken then, I am currently waiting for the NtH from SmartParking, which should arrive at my home address via post and will be addressed to my gran. As I understand it, certain “required documents” should accompany that NtH if it is to be compliant, but these are typically neglected, especially by SmartParking. So Edna Basher’s template appeal is for this purpose. Also, as I mentioned earlier, the PCN issue date according to the SmartParking website was 17 days after the event, so they could not have sent Enterprise the NtK in compliance with 9(4) o POFA.

I’ll sit tight for now and wait for the NtH, but it’s good to know that there is more than way to deal with this in the appeal process.

Le_Kirk

Neither you nor your gran can be the registered keeper, that is the hire company.  Your gran, because she signed the hire agreement, is the "day-to-day keeper".  The NtK goes to the rental company, the name that is lodged with DVLA and whose details will be found on the V5C (log book), whereas the NtH goes to the hirer, in this case, as you say, your gran.  You or your gran with your help, then follows the process as you have been advised upthread.

FeedThemCake

Coupon-mad said:

FeedThemCake said:

UPDATE: So unfortunately the situation is this: I didn't notice/realise this before but the car rental agreement lists the name of and was signed by my grandma, who agreed to use her credit card for the apparently required liability and insurance purposes at Enterprise.

 the parking charge notice is actually addressed to her,

I just glanced at the top and saw the right last name & assumed it was to me. This is because she agreed to use her credit card for the rental as neither my brother or I have credit cards, though I myself booked and paid for the rental and was the only driver.

So she has her NTH already.

You are not waiting for anything.

She will win either way.  EITHER:

- she appeals (or you do it online for her) using the EdnaBasher wording and saying she WAS NOT the driver but won't be naming that person, or

- she does the above but INCLUDES your name and foreign address as well and tells Smart to transfer liability or cancel the PCN now, because they will lose at POPLA.

Either will work. Smart can't win, as long as she appeals ( NOT YOU).

Please pardon the imprecise use of language, I was referring merely to the email notification from Enterprise, which contained certain details about the parking charge. No NtH has been received yet, so will just chill for now and decide which approach to take once it arrives (see if my reply above makes sense).

While I won't be appealing as myself, I'll prepare and send the appeal under her name, since she is the hirer. I'm the driver at the other side of the world and not be heard from

Thanks.

Coupon-mad

directly from the PPC (which I’m still expecting).

No you are not.  You told us Gran has her PCN with her name on it.

This is a complete cinch to kill off.  She could not ask for an easier one!

I even said exactly what to say.  This is simple.

I’ll sit tight for now and wait for the NtH.

No.
You want your Gran be timed out?  DON'T.

FeedThemCake

Coupon-mad said:

directly from the PPC (which I’m still expecting).

No you are not.  You told us Gran has her PCN with her name on it.

This is a complete cinch to kill off.  She could not ask for an easier one!

I even said exactly what to say.  This is simple.

I’ll sit tight for now and wait for the NtH.

No.
You want your Gran be timed out?  DON'T.

Check my other reply, I didn't mean an NtH - just the email notice from the rental co. Pardon the inaccurate language in the earlier post.