8% Nationwide Regular Saver - 13 payments?

EthicsGradient

Rollinghome said:

EthicsGradient said:

Rollinghome said:

WillPS said:

Rollinghome said:

ColdIron said:

No, you can get an extra £16. Discussed at length in this thread

How so?  I pay in £200 on the first day of the last month.  I get paid 8.00% on that until just less than a month until the account is closed.  8.00% is 2.80% more than 5.2% I get from the EA account.  2.80% on £200 for a year is £5.60 for a full year.  For the just one month (it would have to be less) before the account matures, is £5.60/12 = 0.47p.

Because, timed correctly, you can make 2 x £200 payments at the beginning of the term. The additional £200 payment is worth (up to) £16 in interest upon maturity. The difference with the Santander Easy Access is £5.60.

And that's nothing to do with what I said. The final £200 can only earn interest for less than 1 month. 

So for £200 at 8.00% interest for a full year would be £16.00.  For just one month, the interest on that £200 would be £16.00/12 = £1.33. Not £16.00.

But then that doesn't take into account the interest that would be lost by the account the payment was made from. If from an account already paying 5.2% then the gain would be just £0.47p.  

If you are trying to work out how much extra you get over an ordinary EA account you need to take into account the interest the EA account pays. (You may also lose extra days if the money is sitting in a current account waiting for a SO to pay.)

To put it another way, if you left that final £200 in your 5.2% EA account instead of transferring it to your 8.00% RS account, you'd only get 47p less.

As with the misunderstanding around RSs only paying half the stated rate, you only get interest for the time your money is in the account. You don't get 12 months interest for money that's only in the account for one month.

But you're not taking into account the extra interest other payments are getting from being paid on the first of each month. Open one today; 1st payment will be in for 366 days. You can then make your second payment on 1st October (tomorrow) so that's in for 365 days. 3rd is in for 334 days, and so on. Effectively, you've made 2 payments that get about a year, 1 for 11 months, and so on, up to the 13th payment in for a month (there's 1 day less on each of those (eg 1st Oct 2023 to 30th Sept 2024), but that is more than made up for by the the extra payment in for a full year).

So that'd be about £15 above a no-interest account, taking off a little for the day difference; about £5.50 above the best easy access account.

You've missed the point.  You can still pay in on the first day of the month if you want to.  Whatever you do, you'll still only get a maximum of 1 month's interest on money that's only there for the last month before the account matures. There's no magic.

As for the old and much repeated "wait till the last day of the month before opening" wheeze, remember to take into account the interest lost by keeping money in a lower paying account while waiting for the end of the month. The timing is also a bit more complicated than you suggest, e.g. if the rate is competitive on 2 Oct but less competitive in 12 months time. Delaying then gives you less time when the rate is competitive.

No, sorry, everyone else understands it, and you don't. We've all tried explaining it to you, but you're clearly not going to get it, however it's put. That's OK - it's not as if it's you contemplating whether to use it, so it doesn't matter.

"remember to take into account the interest lost by keeping money in a lower paying account while waiting for the end of the month" - well, that's a different scenario. Everyone has been talking about starting the account in the past few days or today (if it can still be opened on a Saturday - anyone had luck?), ie at the end of a month, without waiting.

ColdIron

Rollinghome said:

ColdIron said:

Rollinghome said:

WillPS said:

Rollinghome said:

ColdIron said:

No, you can get an extra £16. Discussed at length in this thread

How so?  I pay in £200 on the first day of the last month.  I get paid 8.00% on that until just less than a month until the account is closed.  8.00% is 2.80% more than 5.2% I get from the EA account.  2.80% on £200 for a year is £5.60 for a full year.  For the just one month (it would have to be less) before the account matures, is £5.60/12 = 0.47p.

Because, timed correctly, you can make 2 x £200 payments at the beginning of the term. The additional £200 payment is worth (up to) £16 in interest upon maturity. The difference with the Santander Easy Access is £5.60.

And that's nothing to do with what I said. The final £200 can only earn interest for less than 1 month. 
[SNIP]

As with the misunderstanding around RSs only paying half the stated rate, you only get interest for the time your money is in the account. You don't get 12 months interest for money that's only in the account for one month.

You are focussing on the final payment in isolation

Certainly the difference on that 13th £200 is only £0.47. If you didn't make the final payment and kept it in a 5.20% account you would only be poorer by about the cost of a ketchup sachet at your local chippy

But it would be unsound to consider it in isolation

The major benefit of these 'calendar month' accounts is not the final, or 13th, payment but the first

Timed well they allow you to increase the monthly balance for the first (ish) month and every subsequent month by £200. This, as I said earlier, would result in roughly an extra £16 for the term

You could buy a cod and chips, a battered sausage and a cup of tea for that

Yes, absolutely concentrating on the final 13th payment. The title of this thread is "8% Nationwide Regular Saver - 13 payments?". 

Yes, and the ability to make 13 payments is worth about £16

However the title of the thread is not "8% Nationwide Regular Saver - 13th and final payment?"

And the point that you now seem to agree is that making that final 13th payment is worth a tad more than zilch,

Well I don't think anybody has disputed that the value of the final (as opposed to the first) is low

But would this not equally apply to all regular savers? There is nothing unique to Nationwide or any other RS in that regard

You might equally say that paying in £200 rather than £199 is worth a tad more than zilch. It is self evidently true and requires no explanation so hardly worthy of discussion. If you have a point beyond that I'm afraid I can't see it

so why all the fuss about it. 

Why indeed. I may upgrade myself to a KFC bucket of bits after all this excitement

Rollinghome

EthicsGradient said:

Rollinghome said:

EthicsGradient said:

Rollinghome said:

WillPS said:

Rollinghome said:

ColdIron said:

No, you can get an extra £16. Discussed at length in this thread

How so?  I pay in £200 on the first day of the last month.  I get paid 8.00% on that until just less than a month until the account is closed.  8.00% is 2.80% more than 5.2% I get from the EA account.  2.80% on £200 for a year is £5.60 for a full year.  For the just one month (it would have to be less) before the account matures, is £5.60/12 = 0.47p.

Because, timed correctly, you can make 2 x £200 payments at the beginning of the term. The additional £200 payment is worth (up to) £16 in interest upon maturity. The difference with the Santander Easy Access is £5.60.

And that's nothing to do with what I said. The final £200 can only earn interest for less than 1 month. 

So for £200 at 8.00% interest for a full year would be £16.00.  For just one month, the interest on that £200 would be £16.00/12 = £1.33. Not £16.00.

But then that doesn't take into account the interest that would be lost by the account the payment was made from. If from an account already paying 5.2% then the gain would be just £0.47p.  

If you are trying to work out how much extra you get over an ordinary EA account you need to take into account the interest the EA account pays. (You may also lose extra days if the money is sitting in a current account waiting for a SO to pay.)

To put it another way, if you left that final £200 in your 5.2% EA account instead of transferring it to your 8.00% RS account, you'd only get 47p less.

As with the misunderstanding around RSs only paying half the stated rate, you only get interest for the time your money is in the account. You don't get 12 months interest for money that's only in the account for one month.

But you're not taking into account the extra interest other payments are getting from being paid on the first of each month. Open one today; 1st payment will be in for 366 days. You can then make your second payment on 1st October (tomorrow) so that's in for 365 days. 3rd is in for 334 days, and so on. Effectively, you've made 2 payments that get about a year, 1 for 11 months, and so on, up to the 13th payment in for a month (there's 1 day less on each of those (eg 1st Oct 2023 to 30th Sept 2024), but that is more than made up for by the the extra payment in for a full year).

So that'd be about £15 above a no-interest account, taking off a little for the day difference; about £5.50 above the best easy access account.

You've missed the point.  You can still pay in on the first day of the month if you want to.  Whatever you do, you'll still only get a maximum of 1 month's interest on money that's only there for the last month before the account matures. There's no magic.

As for the old and much repeated "wait till the last day of the month before opening" wheeze, remember to take into account the interest lost by keeping money in a lower paying account while waiting for the end of the month. The timing is also a bit more complicated than you suggest, e.g. if the rate is competitive on 2 Oct but less competitive in 12 months time. Delaying then gives you less time when the rate is competitive.

No, sorry, everyone else understands it, and you don't. We've all tried explaining it to you, but you're clearly not going to get it, however it's put. That's OK - it's not as if it's you contemplating whether to use it, so it doesn't matter.

"remember to take into account the interest lost by keeping money in a lower paying account while waiting for the end of the month" - well, that's a different scenario. Everyone has been talking about starting the account in the past few days or today (if it can still be opened on a Saturday - anyone had luck?), ie at the end of a month, without waiting.

Well, Coldiron gets the point being made now, see his post on the previous page, so I'm not sure why you still don't. I suggest you read through the relevant posts again.  

To repeat, it's about the value of making a 13th payment as referred to in the thread title.  Not about the value of doubling up the initial payment as soon as possible. (Though that too, is more complicated by other factors than you seem to realise.)   Nor do you need to do the sums for anyone, it's a "wheeze" that's been espoused ever since RS accounts have been around.

In answer to your question, any account with Nationwide can be opened on any day of the week.

2010

I opened and funded mine today.
Tomorrow I`ll add another £200.
So for the month of October I`ll be getting 8% on £400.
When the account matures, I don`t know because I`ve not gone into the nitty gritty yet.

ColdIron

2010 said:

I opened and funded mine today.
Tomorrow I`ll add another £200.
So for the month of October I`ll be getting 8% on £400.

Well done

When the account matures, I don`t know because I`ve not gone into the nitty gritty yet.

It matures on the anniversary of opening in 12 months time

Always worth reading the terms of the account before going ahead, even just the stuff during the application

pfpf

2010 said:

So for the month of October I`ll be getting 8% on £400.

exactly this. everything else on the 100's of pages are just fillers

friolento

2010 said:

I opened and funded mine today.
Tomorrow I`ll add another £200.
So for the month of October I`ll be getting 8% on £400.
When the account matures, I don`t know because I`ve not gone into the nitty gritty yet.

Not to prolong the agony of this thread - but your interest rate for this account is 8% for the entire year, not just for a month, unless Nationwide gives notice that the rate changes from a given date onwards.

Interest is not caclulated monthly, but daily. The daily rate is currently 0.022 or thereabouts. So you will get 365 * 0.022 for your £200 deposited today. Tomorrow, after you deposited another £200, you will get 364*0.022 for £400. The day after it's 363*0.022 for £400 and so on. Upon maturity, they'll add up all your daily interest amounts and pay you the resulting amount.

zagfles

friolento said:

2010 said:

I opened and funded mine today.
Tomorrow I`ll add another £200.
So for the month of October I`ll be getting 8% on £400.
When the account matures, I don`t know because I`ve not gone into the nitty gritty yet.

Not to prolong the agony of this thread - but your interest rate for this account is 8% for the entire year, not just for a month, unless Nationwide gives notice that the rate changes from a given date onwards.

Interest is not caclulated monthly, but daily. The daily rate is currently 0.022 or thereabouts. So you will get 365 * 0.022 for your £200 deposited today. Tomorrow, after you deposited another £200, you will get 364*0.022 for £400. The day after it's 363*0.022 for £400 and so on. Upon maturity, they'll add up all your daily interest amounts and pay you the resulting amount.

The PP was talking about the rate of interest on an amount of balance, so they are correct that in October they'll be earning a rate of 8% on an amount of £400. Assuming no withdrawals in Oct.

What happens after that depends how/when they fund it.

EthicsGradient

Rollinghome said:

EthicsGradient said:

Rollinghome said:

EthicsGradient said:

Rollinghome said:

WillPS said:

Rollinghome said:

ColdIron said:

No, you can get an extra £16. Discussed at length in this thread

How so?  I pay in £200 on the first day of the last month.  I get paid 8.00% on that until just less than a month until the account is closed.  8.00% is 2.80% more than 5.2% I get from the EA account.  2.80% on £200 for a year is £5.60 for a full year.  For the just one month (it would have to be less) before the account matures, is £5.60/12 = 0.47p.

Because, timed correctly, you can make 2 x £200 payments at the beginning of the term. The additional £200 payment is worth (up to) £16 in interest upon maturity. The difference with the Santander Easy Access is £5.60.

And that's nothing to do with what I said. The final £200 can only earn interest for less than 1 month. 

So for £200 at 8.00% interest for a full year would be £16.00.  For just one month, the interest on that £200 would be £16.00/12 = £1.33. Not £16.00.

But then that doesn't take into account the interest that would be lost by the account the payment was made from. If from an account already paying 5.2% then the gain would be just £0.47p.  

If you are trying to work out how much extra you get over an ordinary EA account you need to take into account the interest the EA account pays. (You may also lose extra days if the money is sitting in a current account waiting for a SO to pay.)

To put it another way, if you left that final £200 in your 5.2% EA account instead of transferring it to your 8.00% RS account, you'd only get 47p less.

As with the misunderstanding around RSs only paying half the stated rate, you only get interest for the time your money is in the account. You don't get 12 months interest for money that's only in the account for one month.

But you're not taking into account the extra interest other payments are getting from being paid on the first of each month. Open one today; 1st payment will be in for 366 days. You can then make your second payment on 1st October (tomorrow) so that's in for 365 days. 3rd is in for 334 days, and so on. Effectively, you've made 2 payments that get about a year, 1 for 11 months, and so on, up to the 13th payment in for a month (there's 1 day less on each of those (eg 1st Oct 2023 to 30th Sept 2024), but that is more than made up for by the the extra payment in for a full year).

So that'd be about £15 above a no-interest account, taking off a little for the day difference; about £5.50 above the best easy access account.

You've missed the point.  You can still pay in on the first day of the month if you want to.  Whatever you do, you'll still only get a maximum of 1 month's interest on money that's only there for the last month before the account matures. There's no magic.

As for the old and much repeated "wait till the last day of the month before opening" wheeze, remember to take into account the interest lost by keeping money in a lower paying account while waiting for the end of the month. The timing is also a bit more complicated than you suggest, e.g. if the rate is competitive on 2 Oct but less competitive in 12 months time. Delaying then gives you less time when the rate is competitive.

No, sorry, everyone else understands it, and you don't. We've all tried explaining it to you, but you're clearly not going to get it, however it's put. That's OK - it's not as if it's you contemplating whether to use it, so it doesn't matter.

"remember to take into account the interest lost by keeping money in a lower paying account while waiting for the end of the month" - well, that's a different scenario. Everyone has been talking about starting the account in the past few days or today (if it can still be opened on a Saturday - anyone had luck?), ie at the end of a month, without waiting.

Well, Coldiron gets the point being made now, see his post on the previous page, so I'm not sure why you still don't. I suggest you read through the relevant posts again.  

To repeat, it's about the value of making a 13th payment as referred to in the thread title.  Not about the value of doubling up the initial payment as soon as possible. (Though that too, is more complicated by other factors than you seem to realise.)   Nor do you need to do the sums for anyone, it's a "wheeze" that's been espoused ever since RS accounts have been around.

In answer to your question, any account with Nationwide can be opened on any day of the week.

Wow - you really took that from Coldiron's post on the previous thread, when they said

"But it would be unsound to consider it in isolation

The major benefit of these 'calendar month' accounts is not the final, or 13th, payment but the first

Timed well they allow you to increase the monthly balance for the first (ish) month and every subsequent month by £200. This, as I said earlier, would result in roughly an extra £16 for the term"
and had repeated for you, on this page, right before your own post, to you
"the ability to make 13 payments is worth about £16"

Your ability to stop reading is phenomenal.

You keep trying to make it just "about the value of making a 13th payment as referred to in the thread title". No, it, really, really is about "about the value of doubling up the initial payment as soon as possible". Someone opening today can get one payment in for a full year, one in for a year minus a day, one in for a year minus a month and a day, and so on. The interest is calculated daily.

I know you're not interested, but by now, the important thing is that no one else should be put off opening an account and funding it today, and then funding it on the 1st of each subsequent month, just because you can't understand.

Rollinghome

ColdIron said:

Rollinghome said:

ColdIron said:

Rollinghome said:

WillPS said:

Rollinghome said:

ColdIron said:

No, you can get an extra £16. Discussed at length in this thread

How so?  I pay in £200 on the first day of the last month.  I get paid 8.00% on that until just less than a month until the account is closed.  8.00% is 2.80% more than 5.2% I get from the EA account.  2.80% on £200 for a year is £5.60 for a full year.  For the just one month (it would have to be less) before the account matures, is £5.60/12 = 0.47p.

Because, timed correctly, you can make 2 x £200 payments at the beginning of the term. The additional £200 payment is worth (up to) £16 in interest upon maturity. The difference with the Santander Easy Access is £5.60.

And that's nothing to do with what I said. The final £200 can only earn interest for less than 1 month. 
[SNIP]

As with the misunderstanding around RSs only paying half the stated rate, you only get interest for the time your money is in the account. You don't get 12 months interest for money that's only in the account for one month.

You are focussing on the final payment in isolation

Certainly the difference on that 13th £200 is only £0.47. If you didn't make the final payment and kept it in a 5.20% account you would only be poorer by about the cost of a ketchup sachet at your local chippy

But it would be unsound to consider it in isolation

The major benefit of these 'calendar month' accounts is not the final, or 13th, payment but the first

Timed well they allow you to increase the monthly balance for the first (ish) month and every subsequent month by £200. This, as I said earlier, would result in roughly an extra £16 for the term

You could buy a cod and chips, a battered sausage and a cup of tea for that

Yes, absolutely concentrating on the final 13th payment. The title of this thread is "8% Nationwide Regular Saver - 13 payments?". 

Yes, and the ability to make 13 payments is worth about £16

However the title of the thread is not "8% Nationwide Regular Saver - 13th and final payment?"

And the point that you now seem to agree is that making that final 13th payment is worth a tad more than zilch,

Well I don't think anybody has disputed that the value of the final (as opposed to the first) is low

But would this not equally apply to all regular savers? There is nothing unique to Nationwide or any other RS in that regard

You might equally say that paying in £200 rather than £199 is worth a tad more than zilch. It is self evidently true and requires no explanation so hardly worthy of discussion. If you have a point beyond that I'm afraid I can't see it

so why all the fuss about it. 

Why indeed. I may upgrade myself to a KFC bucket of bits after all this excitement

 Really? How can the 13th payment of £200, that will be in your account for just one month at most, be worth £16? You've already since admitted (see previous page) that it would earn you about 47p net, "about the cost of a ketchup sachet at your local chippy" as you put it.

Yes, of course it would equally apply to all RS accounts. Who would think otherwise?

Yes, it is "self-evidently true" (I hope, but who can be sure around here) that paying in less would earn less. So who would bother to say that?  (This all sounds like a way to divert attention from what has been said.)

Yes, why are there 7+ pages about paying in a 13th payment to be in the account for less than a month at most?  I'd remind you that it was you who decided to contradict the one short post I made, by claiming:  

No, you can get an extra £16. Discussed at length in this thread

Not from adding that last £200 for less than a month you can't.  And then in a later post:

Certainly the difference on that 13th £200 is only £0.47.

If people are going to be told what a clever wheeze it is to make that 13th payment, then let's be honest about how much difference it actually makes.

Enjoy your KFC bucket.