Demand Side Response - EV Charging

[Deleted User]

Octopus’ Intelligent tariff is an example of a tariff that charges EVs at the best time for the Grid. It would seem that this is about to be taken a step further:

https://www.nationalgrideso.com/news/domestic-electric-vehicle-charging-help-eso-balance-energy-system-first-time

born_again

If only more cars had this software & hardware to allow a fully charged battery to send back to the grid when demanded. 

Netexporter

I was disappointed to find that Givenergy's new charger won't be capable of bi-directional charging. Lost opportunity, as they've come later to the market than other brands.

Having distributed storage, in the form of home batteries and EVs, effectively increases the capacity of the grid. Having "local grids", that at least partially balance themselves in supply/demand, and takes some load off the "super-grid". It also enables the high-voltage network to be better utilised in normally lower demand time.

Spoonie_Turtle

Gerry1 said:

'Demand Side Response'??  Energy Rationing, in Plain English !

You will comply, you will do as you're told, you will charge only during the permitted hours.

As I'm sure you're aware, Intelligent Octopus charges whenever's best (based on when the customer needs the charge to be finished, and on grid demand), not within specified hours.  And those who do have fixed hours, on other EV tariffs, voluntarily sign up for it as an integral part of the tariff - just like Economy 7.

Makes sense to make good use of storage capacity where we can get it. 

------

I understand Flux, and I think I understand IO; is this, essentially, a step towards an outgoing IO (in principle) / intelligent Flux but including using the car's battery as, well, a battery, exporting when needed?

Gerry1

[Deleted User] said:

Gerry1 said:

'Demand Side Response'??  Energy Rationing, in Plain English !

You will comply, you will do as you're told, you will charge only during the permitted hours.

Perhaps there should be an icon to promote understanding of 'Demand Side Response'?  Just change the wording on this well-known sign to 'Enforcement Meters' and show a traditional old one with a spinning disc...

Octopus’ IO tariff does instruct the EV when to charge BUT it does it with the consumer’s approval. My reading of the above is that suppliers will opt into the trial and by doing so they will be paid for helping with Grid management.

And you think that both of those will continue forever for everyone?

Remember how the Dartford Crossing charge was promised to be scrapped after it had paid for the QE2 Bridge?

markin

Most things start out voluntary 'with consent' until one day they aren't, Smart meters for one example.

Netexporter

You say that is if smart meters are a bad thing.

QrizB

Gerry1 said:

Remember how the Dartford Crossing charge was promised to be scrapped after it had paid for the QE2 Bridge?

Remember how there used to be a toll to leave Wales on the M4?

I'm sure we can all find anecdotes to support whatever position we hold on this topic.

Netexporter

Enter Wales. Paying to go to ThatEngland isn't worth it!

rp1974

Realistically then a variable time of use tariff where the time and use is decided by "them",not you,it's not a million miles away from the EV specific offerings from various suppliers at present only difference being that you know what your fixed cheaper charging times will be upon sign up.
That partly explains the recent smart charger regulations,basically plug in and charge as and when best suits the needs of the grid,or charge as and when you feel like it,providing it's priced accordingly,this is a step towards how things will need to be in the future.
Personally I'm fairly fortunate that I only need to charge twice/thrice a month using around 150kw in total,did consider moving to an EV tariff but the sums don't really make that much difference given the increased daytime rate involved for the rest of my consumption.

Scot_39

born_again said:

If only more cars had this software & hardware to allow a fully charged battery to send back to the grid when demanded. 

Modern batteries are getting better - but older car batteries do suffer measurable deterioration in mid to later life - and judging by changes to some manufacturers warranties even current ones - do not perhaps perform as well as expected.

Just one example - older Hyundai's had 8 yr/125,000 mile warranty, more modern ones post 2020 Kona and newer - only 100,000 miles - and thats based on 70% capacity (and their mild hybrids only covered for 5 years - I suspect in part as permanently power cycling (charge / discharge cycles).

Power cycling to support the grid on full charge no different to power cycling for actual driving.

Fine if your only planning on keeping the vehicle for a few years - but I'd certainly think morally any second hand buyer should have the right to know - if BEV battery had also been used as battery for "grid management" - so in all reality - user load shifting and domestic cost savings.