In a DMP, can i only make decent token payments for months, then make offers.

stu12345_2

hi again, some short questions about the  CCA letters i am about to write--
.
1. does the 12 day limit start from when i post it or when the creditor gets it.

2, is the 12 day limit to say a 100% yes or 100% no regarding if its enforceable, cos ive been reading through threads here and on legal beadles today and it appears some creditors quickly reply within a  few days  and  state " it seems  the agreement at the MOMENT is unenforceable" then a few weeks later sent a letter showing terms and conditions with the name of the person etc and state " it is now enforceable and here is a copy of the credit agreement"

 Does that mean the creditors are simply using the 12 day window as an acknowledgement window, but leaving themselves a get out clause, in order that weeks or months later, they can say " it is now discovered it is enforceable"
If that is the case what is the point of giving them a max of 12 days to say yes  or no. final answer.
I Have debts with PRA group and they seem to be using that " at the moment" excuse as a get out clause for them, to allow them to come back later and say sorry we were wrong, as we have found an agreement now.

3, the letters I am writing is for a copy of my agreements only, i am not also asking for any statements, is that ok?

4. one debt is a bank overdraft and i read I cannot demand a copy of any credit agreement on an overdraft.

Rob5342

If they don't supply the CCA within 12 days then they can't take any legal.action against you until they do. DCAs don't normally have a copy of the CCA so they have to go back to the original creditor to get it which can take a few months. DCAs always word things carefully to try and instill fear into people and try and intimidate them into paying.

stu12345_2

my point is if they sent a letter saying "at the MOMENT it is unenforceable" does that allow them to come back later and say "it is now enforceable"

Rob5342

stu12345_2 said:

my point is if they sent a letter saying "at the MOMENT it is unenforceable" does that allow them to come back later and say "it is now enforceable"

Yes, if they produce it at any time then then the debt become enforceable. Normally it takes at least 2 or 3 months before they produce it, there is never any guarantee they wont be able to produce it but the longer it goes on the less likely that is. They will always word their letters to suggest they can still find it to try and scare you into paying. 

stu12345_2

Rob5342 said:

stu12345_2 said:

my point is if they sent a letter saying "at the MOMENT it is unenforceable" does that allow them to come back later and say "it is now enforceable"

Yes, if they produce it at any time then then the debt become enforceable. Normally it takes at least 2 or 3 months before they produce it, there is never any guarantee they wont be able to produce it but the longer it goes on the less likely that is. They will always word their letters to suggest they can still find it to try and scare you into paying. 

I assumed the 12 day limit was for them to say yes or no, it seems an odd rule if they say yes at a later date, then what is the point of the 12 day rule? after reading more info on the national debtline website, it seems they can ask for monthly payments, default me, sell it to a debt collector etc whilst they are searching to produce the credit agreement,  so it seems the debt still exists, even if they take longer than 12 days to find documentation,. but they only cant take me to court unless they produce this.

sourcrates

Ignore the 12 plus 2 days thing, they are only guidelines, the consumer credit act was written in 1974, when there was no internet, and life was a lot different than it is today.

The paperwork, if it is still available, is always retained by the original creditor, so the debts new owner has to go back to them and ask them to find it, or produce a reconstituted version of it, this takes time, allow 3 to 6 months or even longer.

If the paperwork cannot be provided within the statutory time frame of 14 days, which it won`t be, the debt becomes temporarily unenforceable, whilst the agreement is sought.

That will remain the case until they provide what they are supposed to, if they cannot provide it, they should tell you.

So yes, at first you will get a temporary period of unenforceability, only if they go on to provide the CCA will that change, they can ask you to do anything whilst this is actioned, but they cannot force payment through the courts without a valid credit agreement.

If they do find it, and its all above board, then so be it, if they don`t, it remains unenforceable until the debt becomes time barred.

stu12345_2

debt camel site says keep paying until they produce an enforceable agreement, give them say 3 months max to find it, if no enforceable agreement by then, stop payments.

“So I can just stop paying?”

"If your reason for asking for the CCA was hoping that you could stop paying the debt, then you could stop after 12 working days.

But in practice many CCA agreements are produced in the next few weeks. So, unless you can’t afford the monthly payments, I usually suggest not stopping it immediately. Leave it a couple of months."

"It’s very common for it to take more than 12 days to find the CCA. Don’t get excited because the 12 days has passed, it means nothing in practice.

I suggest waiting two or three months before you decide they can’t find the agreement and decide to stop paying them."

"The letter from the creditor saying they haven’t found it yet should be clear that the debt is no longer enforceable but it still legally exists.

The creditor can ask you to pay the debt but, if you don’t, the creditor can’t do anything. They can’t hassle you to pay it. A polite letter every 6 months or a year is fine – frequent letters, texts or phone calls aren’t. This isn’t usually a problem in practice.

When a debt is unenforceable, that should be mentioned in any letters asking for payment".

GoodGuy2024

I know this is from a year ago- really interested to know how Stu can provide an update of events within the last 12months. I can tell your were going through a lot of mixed emotions at that time, hopefully by following members guidance/advice you were able to be easy on your self and hopefully you are managing it better by now? 

Grumpelstiltskin

If you search Stu's threads you will see he did a DRO in the end.