Drowning - What Can I Do?

Grumpelstiltskin

EssexHebridean said:

As an aside - you need to stop thinking about the things you "can't" do, and instead start working out how you can make the budgeting that needs to happen work. That does indeed mean making savings - but there are certainly savings there to make if you want to get yourself back on track. 

I totally agree with what you have said.

Almost everything suggested has been greeted with '  I can't do that because.....................'

Like I have said this needs a total change in attitude from the OP.

MrDucky

MattMattMattUK said:

MrDucky said:

CliveOfIndia said:

MrDucky said:

Netflix / Spotify: What free alternatives exist?

Freeview for TV.  About a million different radio stations these days with all the various digital channels as well as the good old BBC channels.

MrDucky said:

Lotto: Can go… but what if my numbers come up?

At the risk of getting a slap on the wrist from the mods - don't be so ridiculous.

MrDucky said:

Car Stuff: I’m fully aware that there are requirements, if there was money left in the pot then I’d be putting it away for them, but when there’s basically zero left over that means zero saved, zero budgeted for future financial requirements and zero for emergencies. Cars needed for work as I travel to multiple different locations daily (work cover internal travel between sites, my £80 a month covers getting to-and-from the main office plus any other travel).

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record, this is something you need to sit down and work out very carefully.  If you want/need to run a car then you absolutely have to budget for it.  There is no way you can run a car without incurring substantial costs.  And you can't just keep on sticking those costs on a credit card and hoping that it'll somehow magically pay itself off.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but I'm just trying to be realistic.

If there really is no wriggle-room in your budget for cutting expenses, would it be feasible to take on some part-time evening/weekend work to bring in some extra cash?  I fully appreciate that's not the easiest thing to contemplate when you come home tired out after a day at work - but if you could make a few hundred extra quid a month to throw at the debt, it'll pay huge dividends in the longer term.

And remember, paying more to a debt has a double benefit - you reduce the debt more quickly, and you also pay less in interest.  So an extra hundred quid paid to a credit card is actually worth more than a hundred quid in your pocket, if that kind of makes sense?

Netflix/Spotify: Without a license is Freeview available to me / same goes for radio?

Without paying a TV license then Netflix is cheaper so probably worth keeping, Spotify could be dropped for a small saving, free radio stations of nearly every flavour are available.

MrDucky said:

Lotto: That was generally meant as a lighthearted joke, although I do know someone that stopped playing and their numbers came up a few months later.

The lottery is an idiot tax and I happily say that as someone who buys the occasional ticket, personally it is an expenditure that should be dropped.

MrDucky said:

Car Stuff: Not harsh at all, I’m fully aware it doesn’t run itself, I simply don’t/haven’t had the funds to cover the future/potential running costs.

The issue is that not planning for those expenses will likely make things worse as soon as those costs occur, so people will be attempting to find a way to help you so that does not happen.

MrDucky said:

Other Entertainment: Probably going back to the above, cutting everything will mean I’m effectively just going to work, coming home, going to work again, coming home again… rinse repeat… I could understand if this was going to achieve some major financial break through, but it’s simply not. So I’d prefer to hold onto at least 1 of the social activities that I currently have.

I might be slightly more lenient on this than others, but I think you need something to live for, so a social life is essential, even if it needs to be frugal entertainment. Seeing how tight that part is I would potentially even be looking to increase it. 

MrDucky said:

Electricity/Gas............................. 168

Water rates............................. 40 

Both of these seem high to me, I live alone, I shower every morning and around 4 evenings a week at home, I do all the usual things, laundry, washing, cooking etc. and my water bill is an average of £18 a month, how much water does your bill say you are using a month?
For the combined Electricity and Gas that does seem high either for summer usage or as a 1/12th averaged payment. How much energy in kWh are you using on both? It does come down to insulation and region (Scotland is colder than Cornwall) but I would expect some minor changes could probably bring that down by £50 pm.

MrDucky said:
Mobile: Ends in January

When this ends go to a SIM only contract as others suggest, £72 a month on a phone, even if you do not go down to <£10 you could still get an unlimited data contract for around £20 a month. 

MrDucky said:

Employment: I’d have to check as there’s a section in our HR policy around moonlighting, but beyond that what are you thinking, I’m open to suggestions on how to make some additional income.

It is worth checking, a couple of evenings bar work, working on a Saturday or a Sunday could be of serious benefit, three six hour shifts a week could add up to another £600-800 a month after tax, which would as a short term measure allow yo to make a significant dent in your debts, potentially allowing you to totally clear your debt in two years. 

On top of that things like Topcashback when you renew your insurance, a cashback credit card can help, although you will probably not qualify at the moment it could be useful in the future. Things like various surveys can also pay off, I get around £150 from YouGov and anywhere from £200-1,400 a year from other options, have a search on here for paid surveys, though the best ones to get on are in person focus groups, you can get offered £100 or more to attend for a few hours, it is usually in vouchers but you can use it to save against other expenditure.

From the debt you have accumulated, was any of that used to buy assets which you could sell and which you would not miss?

You have not mentioned your living space, but if you have a spare room could you get a lodger? You also mention a date night in your entertainment, do you have a partner, is there a prospect of moving in together? I would not suggest you move in ahead of being ready, but living together is significantly cheaper than living alone, so going forward that may also help.

Quite a lot to reply to here so hopefully I don’t miss something.

Netflix / Spotify: I’ll look to keep the Netflix and drop Spotify for an £8 saving.

Lotto: Tbh I’ve had it going for that long I only noticed it when doing my SOA, so it can go.

Car Stuff: I know what people are getting at, but I feel the fact of nothing left each month had eluded several commenters, it’s not that I don’t want to be putting the money away for this, it’s a simple fact that in my current situation I simply can’t, so need things to change to enable me to do so (it’s easy for people to say I should, but if the money isn’t freed up from somewhere then where is it coming from?).

Entertainment: That was sort of my point, if I was dating I’m out three times a week at the boozer spending £600+ a month, sure there’s some attention to be given there, but I have a fairly limited social life as is, so to cut it to the bone to achieve a £40-50 saving each month (that will just go towards the car budget I’ve not had) would mean I’m no better off each month, aside from drowning and treading water I’ll get to enjoy the pleasures of being alone all the time too.. not to be used lightly but that sounds the recipe for depression to me.

Water: Is correct to my usage as far as the water board are concerned (already spoken to them in regards to it).

Gas/Electric: Happy to see where any savings could be made, the monthly cost has doubled in the last few years with the price cap lifting.

Mobile: I intend to, just having to wait it out until then.

Employment: I’ll see what’s available in my area, it’s quite rural so no supermarkets, the one shop, takeaway and pub are family run businesses as it’s a very small village (less than 1000 residents total), at least I get to benefit from cheaper property rental prices. If I’m caught in breach of some sort of moonlighting clause what would the potential ramifications be?

TopCashBack: I looked at this before but couldn’t figure out where or how it would help me, I don’t have disposable income to even spend to qualify for cash back haha!

Other: I did look into a medical trial but due to my medical condition I didn’t qualify to participate in the programme, I’ll look into what other things exist that offer some for of additional income.

Assets: Nothing of particular value, I’ll see what clothes and stuff I’ve got but I’ve found selling on the decline recently (I’ve had listing on Facebook for weeks with zero interest).

Tenancy: I don’t have a spare bedroom and can’t sublet as it’s against my contracted terms. Partner is relatively new at only around three months, and has children so moving in together isn’t even on the cards (I’ve not even met her children).

I’m well and truly ducked tbh, there’s no “way out” from what I can see.

Floss

MrDucky said:

Employment: I’ll see what’s available in my area, it’s quite rural so no supermarkets, the one shop, takeaway and pub are family run businesses as it’s a very small village (less than 1000 residents total), at least I get to benefit from cheaper property rental prices. If I’m caught in breach of some sort of moonlighting clause what would the potential ramifications be?

That is generally for any job working within your profession but for a competitor. If you are concerned, ask your HR team to confirm the exact details.

MrDucky

EssexHebridean said:

MrDucky said:

CliveOfIndia said:

MrDucky said:

Found it in someone else’s thread:-

Household Information

Number of adults in household........... 1

Number of cars owned.................... 1

Monthly Income Details

Monthly income after tax................ 2160

Total monthly income.................... 2160

Monthly Expense Details

Rent.................................... 517

Council tax............................. 117

Electricity/Gas............................. 168

Water rates............................. 40 Do you have the option of switching to a metered supply?  It often works out a lot cheaper for a single person.

Mobile phone............................ 72 This is very high - a SIM-only deal can be had for £10 or less once you're out of contract.

Internet Services....................... 35

Groceries etc. ......................... 200 This is quite high for 1 person.  Shop at Aldi/Lidl if you don't already do so, try batch-cooking and freezing to save money.

Clothing................................ 0

Petrol/diesel........................... 80

Road tax................................ 16

Car Insurance........................... Paid in Full Well done for paying in full, this saves money - but you still need to divide your annual premium by 12 and put that money aside each month, it's still got be paid and budgeted for.

Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 0  You surely need something in here - or is absolutely everything covered by a finance package?  If it is, I can't see anything in your SOA for HP or PCP or whatever.

Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 33

Contents insurance...................... 13

Life assurance ......................... 0 

Presents (birthday, Christmas etc)...... 0 Not even a small Birthday/Xmas gift for close family?  If not then great, but you do need to budget for every outgoing.

Haircuts................................ 20 Can this be cut (excuse the pun!) ? 

Entertainment........................... 95 I'm sure this could be trimmed significantly if you're determined to nail the debts.

Holiday................................. 0  Appreciate you may not be able to afford or want a "big" holiday, but do you never go for the odd day out or weekend away?

Emergency fund.......................... 0  Ideally you should have something in here.

Window cleaning.……………….. 12 Is this necessary - can you do it yourself?

Total monthly expenses.................. 1498

Assets

Cash.................................... 0

Car(s).................................. 15000

Other assets............................ 0

Total Assets............................ 15000

Unsecured Debts

Description..................…....Debt..….……Monthly

Very.........................……….882...………...0 (BNPL - Ends  2024)

Next .....................………...1100.....………60

Monzo loan ................….…9853.………...190

Virgin credit card ...........…..2000....………70

Tesco loan.................………13711...……..327

Capital One credit card …… 200………….6

Total unsecured debts...........653

Monthly Budget Summary

Total monthly income.................... 2160

Expenses (including HP & secured debts) 1498

Available for debt repayments........... 662

Monthly Unsecured debt repayments....... 653

Amount left after debt repayments....... 12

Personal Balance Sheet Summary

Total assets (things you own)........... 15000

Total HP & Secured debt................. 0

Total Unsecured debt.................... 27746

Some observations in bold above.  As always, no criticism or judgements about your lifestyle, purely some impartial/objective comments on the figures.

It's also helpful if you can find out the APRs for your various unsecured debts - any spare cash should be prioritised to the one with the highest APR, this will save the greatest amount of interest.

One other thing, the Very BNPL.  Although (I assume) you're not having to pay anything towards it at the moment, it's going to have to be paid in 2024.  You need to be putting something aside for that so you've got the cash available when the time comes to pay it.

Thank you for the reply, I’ll try to comment on the above golfed sections;-

Water: my water is already metered.
Mobile: Contract is still in place for mobile phone so can’t reduce it.
Groceries: Already shop at Aldi, don’t tend to batch-cook anything though, I thought £200 would be below average, that’s around £1.60 a meal for a months worth of meals.
Car Insurance: I know, zero money left means I can’t.
Presents: Don’t buy for anyone, so 0 is a true reflection.
Haircut: Open to suggestions, have a suit and tie job so have to look presentable at the office/with clients.
Entertainment: Open to suggestions to reduce it.
Holiday: Want, yes, can afford to, absolutely not. My last holiday was in 2015, but I think I’ve got more pressing issues than thinking about sitting on a beach…
Emergency: I know, zero money left means I can’t.
Window Cleaning: Could cancel it, can’t do it myself though (no equipment to do it).

I’ll try and find out the APR, it’s highest on the Very/Next/Capital One accounts, Tesco loan is probably the lowest, but there’s no “spare cash” to make any changes to my current payment plans.

I have no means to pay the Very BNPL when it reaches its due date, only option is sell personal items to cover the outstanding balance.

Cheers,

Great input already from several posters including running through the SOA in full. 

That's a really high bill for metered water for a single person. Have you checked the meter recently, and are the readings correct? I'd suggest that unless you've got a really large garden which you water a lot, there could be something amiss there - our supplier are estimating our large 3 bed house with two of us in it at £34 a month, and I fully intend to be making savings on that if possible! 
Mobile: diarise when your contract is up and as soon as it is (or rather, a month or so ahead of it finishing) start shopping around for SIM only deals.
Groceries: I average around £225 a month for two of us. That's meal planning 90% of the time, shopping from a list, and cooking from scratch. I vary where I shop between Aldi, Lidl and Tesco, with an occasional Morrisons or Sainsbury's shop thrown in. 
Haircut - a set of clippers and learn to do it yourself? A change of style so barbers visits become needed less frequently? 
Entertainment - reducing this is simple - go out less! 

You must budget the car insurance - not doing so is one of the reasons why you're finding the debt spiral is never ending. If your insurance is £300 a year for example, you need to find £30 a month (the policy cost this year, plus a margin for likely cost increase) to save from somewhere else in the budget (I'd vote for groceries to be your target here!) and set that aside in an account so the money is there ready at renewal time. Same applies to your car maintenance costs too - work out the annual costs, and set aside the right amount monthly. 

The key thing here if you want to tackle this situation is to start learning to budget. There are places where savings can be made - 
Start being really mindful with water use - I'd be astonished if there isn't at least a £10 a month saving to be had there.
With energy prices having dropped back, there may be scope for some changes there. As with the water the key thing is to ensure that regular, correct readings are given to make sure you are being charged correctly.
Nail down costs on things like mobile, internet as soon as you are out of contract on them. At a glance I'd say that you have £60+ savings to be made on the mobile bill, and perhaps up to £10 on internet. 
Groceries - already mentioned.
On the car costs, you can save on your road tax by paying that in a lump sum, too, as it costs more to pay monthly - so as you nail down savings elsewhere, set aside money for this too. 
Contents Insurance - that seems quite high for what seems a fairly small household. Worth running through a comparison site on renewal. 
Investigate whether that pre-paid certificate for prescriptions would save you money.

On the groceries - your maths is a little amiss I think, and this is leading you to think that you are eating more cheaply than in fact you are. Think of the various options - breakfasts can be toast, or cereal, or a piece of fruit and a yogurt. Any of these options will come in well below £1 a day, and probably more like 50p. Lunches - prepare a roll or a sandwich at home, add some fruit, a packet of crisps, or maybe a cereal or snack chocolate bar.  £1.50 at the most per day?  For main meals think about batch cooking, and how you can make things stretch for several days. I take it that you have access to a freezer, as a starting point? Think about buying and roasting a chicken - the legs will give you two sunday lunches (eat one hot on day of cooking, freeze the other. The white meat will do two meals at least - maybe chopped into chunks and used in a curry, with pasta, or with salad? Then there will be "pickings" from the carcass which can be used in a risotto for example. That chicken which may have cost you £5 or less to buy has now fed you for at least two meals, and very probably more depending on your chosen portion sizings.  Also think about buying frozen veg rather than fresh - frequently better value. If you're buying branded goods, step these down to own brand, and if you buy own brand, try out some of the discount or budget lines and see how those compare. Really nail down on food waste too - when you clearing debt you need to make every penny work for you - so keep a close eye on the thigs in your fridge and ensure they get used while they are still fresh.

Water: Price is correct and recent meter reading have been taken within the last fortnight. Water board say there is nothing wrong and I’m within “expected” usage for my property, even when I’ve said that a friend who lives in a similar sized property only pays £16 a month, they just said they can’t comment on others accounts or individual usage.

Mobile: As soon as the contract ends I’ll be moving to a SIM only plan.

Groceries: My previous calculation worked out at £1.60 a meal, and that was based on the £200 total, not factoring in personal hygiene products, cleaning the home, general medical or other products also purchased at the grocery store. I honestly can’t see where this can be reduced further, I don’t buy bread as it can’t be consumed within the use-by date (same goes for a lot of fresh stuff, I don’t buy eggs, fruit, cheese or veg) I mainly eat a diet of highly processed / freezer products as they offer the best dates, again I don’t want to seem combative, but the £5 chicken which also requires multiple other items + cost to cook to construct a meal is looking far beyond £1.60 a meal… I shop at Aldi so buy Aldi brand products where available, only exception is lactose free milk from local corner shop (this is Arlo branded) if I’ve run out between Aldi shops (generally twice a month - 1 “big shop” and the other to supplement).

Haircut: Happy to not get professionally cut each month, but I’ll need to do something to maintain it (no budget to buy hair styling tools/clippers).

Entertainment: I don’t actually go out that much, Entertainment covers:- Guitar Practice - £20 / Bouldering - £15 / Spotify - £8 / Netflix - £5 / Date Night - £20 / Gym - £15 / Lotto - £12 - £95 really does not go far, and definitely doesn’t indicate so lavish social life….

Car Stuff: Once I’m able to balance things this is where the freed up money will go.

Contents Insurance: I don’t think it’s due for renewal until May, if £12 is high what should it be (think it’s around £15k of cover)?

Medical: Already on prepaid for medical as require multiple prescription items a month.

CliveOfIndia

MrDucky said:

Car Stuff: I know what people are getting at, but I feel the fact of nothing left each month had eluded several commenters, it’s not that I don’t want to be putting the money away for this, it’s a simple fact that in my current situation I simply can’t, so need things to change to enable me to do so (it’s easy for people to say I should, but if the money isn’t freed up from somewhere then where is it coming from?).

I'm just going to pick on this one point.  "if the money isn’t freed up from somewhere then where is it coming from?"

Well if it's not freed up from somewhere else, where does it come from (at the moment) when the time comes to pay your insurance or you need to pay for the MOT test?  These are expenses that have to be paid.  Quite apart from any routine maintenance or unexpected repairs that may crop up.

So you seem to find the money when it's needed.  Are you paying for these on credit card?  If so, they're costing you even more than they should, since you're presumably paying a hefty whack of credit card interest on top of the cost of the purchase itself.

You really can't take the attitude of "Oh, when the time comes, I'll stick it on the credit card and just let it sit there, as long as I pay the minimum each month it'll be OK".  That will slowly and surely lead to an ever-increasing spiral of debt.

As has been said many times on this thread, you have to sit down and take a long hard look at your budget.  Sure, there are going to be some unpleasant decisions to be made, but that's the only way to get out of it.

OK, well perhaps not the only way.  You could just default on all unsecured debt.  Not a decision to be made lightly.  Apart from trashing your credit file for 6 years, it could well impact your job, depending on the nature of your work, and potentially even your ability to rent a property.  That really would be an avenue of last resort.

If you are prepared to knuckle down, make some drastic (perhaps painful) cutbacks, increase your income, then you can do this.  It'll take hard work and determination, but it can be done.

MrDucky

Grumpelstiltskin said:

EssexHebridean said:

As an aside - you need to stop thinking about the things you "can't" do, and instead start working out how you can make the budgeting that needs to happen work. That does indeed mean making savings - but there are certainly savings there to make if you want to get yourself back on track. 

I totally agree with what you have said.

Almost everything suggested has been greeted with '  I can't do that because.....................'

Like I have said this needs a total change in attitude from the OP.

I see what you are both saying, but so far we have cut out my entire life outside of work to balance out the “missing” funds to run the car, so now I’m still drowning // treading water each month (like before), I just now get to do it while spending my time alone at home with no Entertainment since I’ve cut it all out. This seems less like a solution and more like condemning myself to purgatory while I continue in the same situation I already was in… surely you can both see that?

Grumpelstiltskin

Less than the cost of a haircut.
Wahl HomePro Basic Corded Hair Clipper, Head Shaver, Home Haircutting, Clippers for Men, Easy to Use, Haircut Kit, Pack of 1 : Amazon.co.uk: Beauty

Martico

Hi - can I just ask one more quick question, which I think is important (apologies if someone's already asked this) - are you currently able to get through the month without using a CC? The question is aimed to ascertain whether your current budget is completely accurate. If you find that you are using CCs and increasing your debt further, then something major (trade in car or start a debt management plan) might be needed to get you straight, as budget tinkering might not be enough, especially with that BNPL debt on the horizon 

MrDucky

Martico said:

Hi - can I just ask one more quick question, which I think is important (apologies if someone's already asked this) - are you currently able to get through the month without using a CC? The question is aimed to ascertain whether your current budget is completely accurate. If you find that you are using CCs and increasing your debt further, then something major (trade in car or start a debt management plan) might be needed to get you straight, as budget tinkering might not be enough, especially with that BNPL debt on the horizon 

My current situation is without accruing any additional debt (all accounts / cards have been closed / destroyed / stopped where possible).

Martico

Brilliant, that's good news at least