Euro Car Parks / Wetherspoons Green Parrot Parking Charge Notice

Bandingles

Any help or advice gratefully received...

31/8/23 On holiday in Perranporth, Cornwall, a family drove to the Green Parrot (Wetherspoons) pub on a very rainy evening for a meal, having never been there before. Driver didn't notice any warning signs on entry, as it was very overcast and raining very hard, and after all - it's a pub car park...

Driver reversed into a space and waited while a passenger sprinted in (did I mention it was raining heavily and very overcast?) to see if there was a table free (JDW don't do bookings...). Passenger returned several minutes later to report no tables available, so the family then spent 20-odd minutes fighting a poor internet signal trying to find somewhere else to eat. Having done this the family then left for an alternative venue. The driver didn't see any warning or pay & display signs inside the car park as they never set foot out of the car, and didn't see any warning signs on exit as it was raining heavily & overcast, and they had to concentrate on turning onto an unfamiliar road, in the rain.

17/9/23 registered keeper received a Parking Charge Notice / Notice to Keeper from Euro Car Parks (dated 6/9/23) for "No valid pay and display/permit was purchased" stating a "Time in Car Park" of just over 30 mins. Now they apparently have two days before a 'discounted' amount expires (20/9/23).

So the age old question - is it worth appealing, and if so on what grounds?

I've read through a few similar threads and the general consensus seems to be that contacting either the pub or JDW HQ / MD will be pointless, as they will just refer to ECP.

And that ECP will automatically reject any appeals, because that's what they do.

So that would leave POPLA, but I presume they would only uphold on procedural issues / errors, rather than genuine reasons like not actually parking & leaving the car, signs not really visible in poor weather, holidaymakers not being familiar with venue?

Any advice very welcome, but the more I read other threads the more I think it will have to be put down to experience and just pay the invoice...

Many thanks.

B789

You are showing typical Stockholm Syndrome symptoms. Why on earth are you prepared to just pay the scammers? Don't you think that if there were no obvious or prominent signs warning you that you are about to enter into a contract by conduct in the car park, is not enough reason to fight this?

You should still try Plan A. Just presuming "...the general consensus seems to be that contacting either the pub or JDW HQ / MD will be pointless, as they will just refer to ECP" is typical of someone who can't really be bothered trying. Have you written to your MP to ask for their intervention?

"And that ECP will automatically reject any appeals, because that's what they do." Do they? At least try. Have you left a TrustPilot review for the pub to warn other potential victims?

You are right that POPLA will only uphold on procedural issues. Is lack or or poor signage not a procedural issue? It's probably one of the best ones, especially ECP who have repeatedly been defeated at POPLA for their rubbish signs.

"Any advice very welcome, but the more I read other threads the more I think it will have to be put down to experience and just pay the invoice..."

Why so defeatist before you even start?

Coupon-mad

Just ignore them.  I've no idea why people currently pay private parking charges all the time that the industry remains unregulated.

The Government is trying very hard to sort the scam out and so are people like me on the DLUHC Steering Group.  The fact that consumers just keep paying perpetuates and funds the problem. 

Bandingles

Thanks for the replies.

The reason I sound defeatist is that I am suffering from a bout of depression at the moment, so this has come at just the wrong time. My apologies for making presumptions, but they are the result of research.

Rather than just blindly ask the same questions that have been asked of you many, many times, I thought I'd put some effort in reading other posts to get an idea of what might be required before posting. From this there were several involving JD Wetherspoons where the posters contacted the pub and the company and were told by both that there was nothing that they could / would do and to contact ECP, hence my comment. What's the point of spending time investigating an avenue that everyone has found to be a dead end? Plus I only got the PCN yesterday afternoon, and the 'discounted' rate expires on Wednesday, so asking for advice here seemed like the best action to take first.

Likewise every post I read involving ECP had them rejecting appeals - my comment was actually repeating one of the responders. Have ECP ever accepted an appeal?

I've gone through the thread of the many of the successful POPLA appeals, in reverse order, as was suggested on a another post, and seen that proof of landowner, signage, chasing the registered keeper rather than the driver are common reasons for upholding an appeal, but have no idea if any of those reasons apply to this case - hence the post to see if there is a chance of success, based on the evidence.

I've also read that ECP have never gone to court for a single PCN - is this correct? If so then that could be reassuring.

I appreciate that for you experts these processes are simple & straightforward, but to the layman who thankfully hasn't had to deal with this before it is a daunting, unknown & confusing world that we fear may end up costing us far more than the 'discounted' rate - that's the reason people pay parking charges...

My apologies if my tone gave the impression that I "can't be bothered" to appeal; the opposite is true, but only if there is a good chance of success. I was hoping by providing all the paperwork & images in the correct format it might help someone to give an honest appraisal of the case, and go from there.

Coupon-mad

What's the point of spending time investigating an avenue that everyone has found to be a dead end? 

Very much in order to add to the weight and number of complaints. One complaint will be the straw that breaks the camel's back and they'll kick out the PPC in the end.

There's a saying: 'evil prevails when good men do nothing' which applies here.

Why not ask your local MP to please complain on your behalf?  Some of them have private parking cases as the main problem in their postbag!  MPs should be very engaged in this as the law is changing to curb the worst excesses of rogue parking firms, and they have this info:

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8736/

I've gone through the thread of the many of the successful POPLA appeals, in reverse order, as was suggested on a another post, and seen that proof of landowner, signage, chasing the registered keeper rather than the driver are common reasons for upholding an appeal,

but have no idea if any of those reasons apply to this case - hence the post to see if there is a chance of success, based on the evidence.

This is why I said you can ignore it.
Less effort.

But did you miss seeing ALL THE WINS last year v ECP, in cases where the £100 on the sign blends in with small print?  There's a whole load reported in POPLA DECISIONS at the top of the forum! If that's true in your case, then a couple of good/slightly blurry signage photos will win at POPLA for you!

I've also read that ECP have never gone to court for a single PCN - is this correct? If so then that could be reassuring.

Yes in our experience.

Even if they ever did try to start a claim against you, there's no immediate CCJ risk as long as you defend.

And by 2024 the industry will be regulated so the landscape will have changed for the better. IMHO this will make court claims LESS likely.

  

1505grandad

" From this there were several involving JD Wetherspoons where the posters contacted the pub and the company and were told by both that there was nothing that they could / would do and to contact ECP, hence my comment. What's the point of spending time investigating an avenue that everyone has found to be a dead end?"

Surely the more complaints the company receive the more they are likely to do something and take notice of their customers concerns. If no complaints they won't know anything is bothering their customers.

Bandingles

Ok I will write to the pub and the HQ / MD for the record - I see the reasoning now.

I'll also check the POPLA DECISIONS thread, to try to find signage issues.

To clarify, I live approx 300 miles from the pub, so the only images I can get are from Google streetview which aren't clear. What should the signs be showing in regard to this £100?

Also would my MP be willing to complain on my behalf about something that happened so far away?

I've just realised I haven't posted a link to images & docs - they are here:

hxxps://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ZiUZ1IY0JqFvVyYdkVpntbUoGKJHCotS?usp=sharing

(hopefully I've done the right thing with the xx replacing the tt, as I'm a newbie?)

I just need an honest appraisal of possible success - I'd like to appeal etc but with my condition at the moment I can't really risk it if it's unlikely.

Many thanks.

KeithP

Bandingles said:

Also would my MP be willing to complain on my behalf about something that happened so far away?

Your MP represents you in Parliament.
There is no incentive for an MP in a constituency hundreds of miles away to do anything for you. You won't stop voting for him if he fails you. 

However, the reverse is true for the MP who represents you. He can ask other members of the Houses of Parliament and his party representatives in the problem constituency for help in dealing with this.