EPCs for BTL (since when?)

MultiFuelBurner

Grumpy_chap said:

BungalowBel said:

There are proposals to change to EPC 'C' on new tenancies from 2025 and on existing tenancies by 2028  https://www.nrla.org.uk/news/epc-rules-for-rented-property-what-you-need-to-know .

I had not heard that proposal before reading this thread.
I thought I'd look back at the EPC's for our property and it appears as though the inspectors can be inconsistent:
 - 2009, D
 - 2018 (after we refurbished quite a lot, including new boiler), still D but actually a worse actual score than the 2009.
The new boiler was installed as a high-rated device so that should have made some fairly big improvement compared to the 1970's boiler in place before that.  Nothing showed in the EPC as a gain, though.

The 2018 assessment said to insulate the cavity walls and insulate the solid floor.  Estimate cost £6k (no idea whether that is correct or not) and potential savings £100 per year.

If the property has to reach a "C", who will pay for that?
It makes no sense based on the figures in the report, it would be a 60-year pay-back in cash terms.  No idea what the pay-back would be for embedded energy / carbon versus the on-going impact.

We could well be getting to a similar thing with properties as we have with cars - an equivalent to scrapping a perfectly good car to avoid punitive charges applied.  Perhaps we will get paid money to knock down perfectly good properties and build another in place?

Applying latest standards to existing infrastructure is nonsense.

If this does pass as law at some point. With the average property a D rating I wonder if half the rental stock would disappear.

It's very interesting times.beung a LandLord.with the rental.reform bill also in the offering.

IRememberItWell

user1977 said:

Looking up EPCs for similar properties should give you an idea.

VG idea - thanks indeed.

propertyrental

The criteria for rating EPC has also changed a lot (and likely to chage further).

So a property rated as, say, 'D' 5 years ago, might only achieve an 'E' if assessed today even if there's been no change to the structure, insulation, heating etc.

And that of course also ignores the different 'assumptions' different assessors might make.

ComicGeek

The point of the EPC ratings is that the mid point of the scale should reflect the average energy costs - as the average is being consistently improved, it makes sense that an unimproved property falls down the EPC scale over the years.

Expect some major fudging in the future, as they try and work out how to make heat pumps look better than gas boilers.

FreeBear

Grumpy_chap said: The 2018 assessment said to insulate the cavity walls and insulate the solid floor.  Estimate cost £6k (no idea whether that is correct or not) and potential savings £100 per year.

If the property has to reach a "C", who will pay for that?

I suspect £6K to insulate a solid concrete floor to current standard is well on the low side. A considerable amount of material will need to be dug out and disposed of - Most of the work is likely to be done by hand, which will take time. On top of that, it will be hugely disruptive.

5mm of woodfibre board will make a small difference to the heat loss. Not enough to move the EPC rating up, but would improve the feel underfoot.

As to who pays for it - the property owner of course. Consider it an investment that improves the quality of life. The return on investment should pay dividends when you come to sell.

Grumpy_chap

FreeBear said:

Grumpy_chap said: The 2018 assessment said to insulate the cavity walls and insulate the solid floor.  Estimate cost £6k (no idea whether that is correct or not) and potential savings £100 per year.

If the property has to reach a "C", who will pay for that?

I suspect £6K to insulate a solid concrete floor to current standard is well on the low side. A considerable amount of material will need to be dug out and disposed of - Most of the work is likely to be done by hand, which will take time. On top of that, it will be hugely disruptive.

5mm of woodfibre board will make a small difference to the heat loss. Not enough to move the EPC rating up, but would improve the feel underfoot.

As to who pays for it - the property owner of course. Consider it an investment that improves the quality of life. The return on investment should pay dividends when you come to sell.

I agree on the £6k figure being absurdly low.
I suspect the figure was just plucked from thin air on the basis is was high enough no-one would ever look into that in any further detail given the potential savings indicated at £100.

I get that the property owner pays for it.
I doubt it would increase the value of the property for sale purposes.
If that is another cost that the LL has to consider within the business plan, the rental rate would have to increase.

ComicGeek said:

The point of the EPC ratings is that the mid point of the scale should reflect the average energy costs - as the average is being consistently improved, it makes sense that an unimproved property falls down the EPC scale over the years.

Expect some major fudging in the future, as they try and work out how to make heat pumps look better than gas boilers.

This makes some sense.
BUT, there is a considerable amount of property that will never reach near to a current standard.
My house (where we live, not the rental) is a 1920 mid-terrace. 
At purchase it was a "E" with potential of being "D". 
We have not implemented the proposals to achieve that rating.   
Based on your "mid-scale" explanation, the house will now be an "F" possibly.
There is a massive amount of older property stock and the inter-war development that just simply won't be brought to match current standards, ever.  
Will this result in these properties being declared uninhabitable?

It's just as daft as all the electrical stuff in the house being covered with stickers every time a meter reader turns up to state that the electrical installation does not comply with current regulations and therefore may or may not be unsafe...

ComicGeek

Grumpy_chap said:

There is a massive amount of older property stock and the inter-war development that just simply won't be brought to match current standards, ever.  
Will this result in these properties being declared uninhabitable?

In a modern world where energy prices are rising, health implications of poor heating in winter and overheating in summer, future risks of global warming and extreme weather conditions, changes in how people use houses, poor flexibility of older house layouts to suit older populations or young families, poor condition of infrastructure in these areas (water and electricity supplies normally not sufficient) etc - then yes, perhaps these properties should be declared uninhabitable. At some point it has to be realised that you can't make all buildings suitable for the future without knocking down and rebuilding - or to put it more bluntly, you can't polish a turd. A lot of the new builds over the last 60 years fall into this category as well, not just the older housing stock.

All buildings have a limited life span - if they don't have any historic importance then they should be replaced with ones more suited for the future. The question always is who pays for this.

Purchasers really should be more wary of EPC ratings (or just generally of heating requirements and costs if they don't trust the ratings), as it really will start affecting resale value and mortgage costs in the future.

chrisw

I would suspect there will be a cap on cost as there is now. Although the current £3500 cap might have to be increased to allow for the greater changes needed to move further up the EPC ratings.

IRememberItWell

Very many thanks indeed to all who have taken the time to respond to my query of EPCs.
Your help and advice is greatly appreciated.
IRIW

_Penny_Dreadful

chrisw said:

I would suspect there will be a cap on cost as there is now. Although the current £3500 cap might have to be increased to allow for the greater changes needed to move further up the EPC ratings.

There is a cap on cost and once the landlord has spent the cap (s)he can apply for an exemption, much like now except the proposed cap is £10,000 if I remember correctly.