Fineco Bank pulling out of the UK

PloughmansLunch

SouthLondonUser said:

ivormonee said:

Thanks. Alas, the options don't fit my bill. Wise is an electronic money provider and HSBC use UK IBANs, so neither works for me. Fineco is an actual bank and has an EU IBAN, which is what I need for my EURO transactions.

So you need an EU IBAN?

I don't mean to intrude, but, out of curiosity, does this mean there are banks which can send money to an EU IBAN but not to a UK IBAN?

I wonder if, post Brexit, EU banks are allowed to open EU accounts for UK residents

Some Spanish banks and utilities companies refuse to accept payments and direct debits originating from banks with UK IBANs (or sometimes won’t even deal with non-ESxx IBANs), even though under EU rules they shouldn’t be allowed to discriminate this way.

kaMelo

ivormonee said:

The point I was making at the start was that I am unaware of any other bank (not electronic money institution) that is available in the UK which offers EURO accounts with an EU IBAN.

Fineco did exactly this and there appears to be nobody else. Fineco's departure would mean such an account will no longer be available in the UK so they provided a unique and valuable service.

What does a European nation IBAN gives you that a UK IBAN, such as HSBC, doesn't?

Section62

SouthLondonUser said:

It's not necessarily an "excuse". I can't understand how so many people feel it that way....

How about because -

SouthLondonUser said:

....It makes perfect sense that a foreign business would decide to exit the UK market if Brexit makes the cost of doing business here much higher.

- it doesn't really make sense when the company didn't start up in the UK until after the decision to leave the EU had been made, and the company made the decision to grow the business after the UK formally left the EU.

I mean, it is possible the executives in charge of Fineco in the UK didn't realise - after the event - that leaving the EU had resulted in increased costs of doing business.  But if so, wouldn't that simply lead us to question how good they were at developing their growth strategy in the face of known facts?

SouthLondonUser said:

No, Fineco started in 1999 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FinecoBank

So given you've just demonstrated^^  you don't know the background to when and how Fineco set up in the UK, and how that relates to the key decision dates for the UK's leaving the EU, I'm wondering how much weight you would like us to attach to your analysis of why Fineco have made the decision they now have?

SouthLondonUser

@PloughmansLunch I remember speaking to an ex-colleague (can't remember if French or Belgian) who opened a EUR account in his country after Brexit, and said a few banks offer bank accounts for French (or Belgian) citizens living abroad. They had always done it, even to citizens outside the EU, and keep doing it.

I do wonder if they can do it only for fellow citizens living in the UK, and not for Brits living in the UK, or if the new post-Brexit rules mean that an EU bank cannot serve a UK resident regardless of nationality.

@s@Section62 I said that Fineco launched in 1999. Many press articles referred to it as a neobank but that's patently false. I never said it launched in the UK in 1999.

Sure, if management wanted to expand in the UK after Brexit, then did a U-turn, they can't claim Brexit was a surprise.

But the point that Brexit makes it more expensive to do business in the UK remains. I don't exactly recall a new influx of foreign banks saying: "hey, the UK is the place to be post Brexit, let's all open a presence there and get regulated by the UK with all the extra cost this involves"

Lions_89

It depends on the size of the bank and if they can keep the cash flowing in. Chase is having a go. Fineco took a chance but they could not make it work. There is no denying the UK leaving the EU will result in EU banks having barriers to operation in the UK. But the question relates to Fineco bank, and I must tell you I am not convinced Brexit was the cause in this case. It does put my back up when banks get involved in political matters. Just admit, your business is not viable.

friolento

Lions_89 said:

It depends on the size of the bank and if they can keep the cash flowing in. Chase is having a go. Fineco took a chance but they could not make it work. There is no denying the UK leaving the EU will result in EU banks having barriers to operation in the UK. But the question relates to Fineco bank, and I must tell you I am not convinced Brexit was the cause in this case. It does put my back up when banks get involved in political matters. Just admit, your business is not viable.

It is not political to state that Brexit has increased the cost of doing business in the UK for banks which previously operated under an passport agreement in the UK. It is a simple matter of fact.

The same is true for UK banks which pre-Brexit operted in the EU under passporting arrangements.

The additional costs may well have rendered the business unviable. The root cause still remains Brexit - even if people feel uncomfortable about this truth, and would rather suppress the mention of it.

This is not a politial statement from me, merely an observation of what is going on around us.

SouthLondonUser

A broader point is: is it even desirable to let banks passport their licence?

I am sceptical of banks from small countries raising deposits in larger ones, e.g. Revolut with a Lithuanian licence raising deposits in Germany France etc (Revolut is a bank in the EU but NOT in the UK).

Remember what happened with the Icelandic banks in the UK and NL? The Icelandic deposit protection scheme was too small to bail out UK and Dutch depositors, who ended up being bailed out by their national governments.

The UK took Iceland to court but lost - a government is not on the hook to bail out foreign depositors if its domestic deposit protection scheme is unable to do so.

I am not as sceptical about banks from large countries operating in similar countries.

And about brokers (thinking of Fineco's stockbroking business) operating in other countries.

Section62

friolento said:

...

The additional costs may well have rendered the business unviable. The root cause still remains Brexit - even if people feel uncomfortable about this truth, and would rather suppress the mention of it.

This is not a politial statement from me, merely an observation of what is going on around us.

An observation which appears to be made with at least one eye firmly closed.

Those of us questioning Fineco's claims are not saying that Brexit had noting to do with it, merely that a claim by a bank which didn't arrive until after the UK had decided to leave the UK is making it difficult to believe that there isn't more to do with this decision than just the additional costs post-Brexit.

You appear only willing to believe there is one root cause.  Those with an alternate point of view are suggesting multiple root causes appear to be involved in this decision - not least the half-hearted attempt to break into a market which the CEO himself said would "not be a Sunday stroll".

The thing about evidence and facts is you have to look at all of them.  Not just pick the ones which suit the narrative.  The latter is when "facts" get 'political'.

SouthLondonUser

PloughmansLunch said:

Some Spanish banks and utilities companies refuse to accept payments and direct debits originating from banks with UK IBANs (or sometimes won’t even deal with non-ESxx IBANs), even though under EU rules they shouldn’t be allowed to discriminate this way.

So is your issue with Wise that it doesn't allow direct debits, or that it's not a real bank? As others have pointed out (thanks! I didn't know) you can choose to park your Wise liquidity in some kind of BlackRock money market funds.

Wise supposedly offers EUR direct debits but I have never tried

Section62

SouthLondonUser said:

@s@Section62 I said that Fineco launched in 1999. Many press articles referred to it as a neobank but that's patently false. I never said it launched in the UK in 1999.

Sure, if management wanted to expand in the UK after Brexit, then did a U-turn, they can't claim Brexit was a surprise.

But the point that Brexit makes it more expensive to do business in the UK remains. I don't exactly recall a new influx of foreign banks saying: "hey, the UK is the place to be post Brexit, let's all open a presence there and get regulated by the UK with all the extra cost this involves"

Now I'm having trouble reconciling the BiB with -

SouthLondonUser said:

It's not necessarily an "excuse". I can't understand how so many people feel it that way. Is it because they are die-hard Brexiteers who want to deny the negative consequences of their beautiful Brexit??

From my POV, I think it is because people questioning Fineco's statements are doing so because they are sufficiently open-minded to see the facts don't really fit the claims. I.e. we think Brexit costs is to some extent an 'excuse' for poor management decisions in this case.

When you say "I don't exactly recall a new influx of foreign banks" I do wonder whether Fineco's decision to expand in the UK post-Brexit was based at least in part on them seeing an opportunity (the UK is apparently the only country they expanded into), but lacked the resources to make any significant inroads in a market which is highly competitive. (bearing in mind here that both Tesco and M&S have completely withdrawn from the current account market in the same timeframe because they couldn't make it work either).

But then what do you mean by "foreign banks"?  Just those from the EU27, or banks from all countries around the world?  And how carefully have you been watching to know whether or not an "influx" has taken place?  Is there a possibility that banks who can see opportunites in post-Brexit UK were here already, and therefore won't form part of the "influx" you seem to feel is a necessity as a measure of the success or otherwise of Brexit?

This is a moneysaving forum where concepts such as good customer service and value for money are important.  It is also important that information posted is factually correct.  The way I see Fineco is as a new entrant to a difficult market which didn't do a very good job of making their presence felt. They aren't a bank anyone could really recommend as being MSE. That's what should have formed the bulk of the discussion on this thread - rather than people resorting to tired insults such as "die-hard Brexiteers" - simply because someone has a different point of view.