Utilitas standing charge scam,

MultiFuelBurner

GingerTim said:

MultiFuelBurner said:

Hi Tony

I researched the company and they are rated very well. So I switched over, they installed the smart meter and electricity on the 6th and gas will be done in a couple of weeks

So you researched the company as in reviews but not the magical no standing charge tariff?

That said you may have a case of doorstep MIS selling in they stated £30-40 per month savings deu to having no standing charge.

I'm not sure about that, it seems to be the OP who came to that figure. Technically the OP is saving £30-40 on the standing charge...

OP said: "However if you look at the savings on standing charges 63p/day and whatever for gas it really does add up over the months and years, I was under the impression I'd be saving £30-£40 per month with them."

That's why I said......wait for it

If they stated 

rp1974

Technically,there is no standing charge the first few units are designed to recuperate the loss.the cost of there not being one.
Even the most basic internet search would've revealed this,never mind more intense scrutiny.
No scam here OP,if you didn't understand and check the detail of what you were agreeing to before joining up.

Only way that anyone could realistically save money by doing this would be if there are entire days that can be guaranteed to be zero consumption of electricity or gas,possible with gas,highly unlikely with electricity though.

Reed_Richards

rp1974 said:

Only way that anyone could realistically save money by doing this would be if there are entire days that can be guaranteed to be zero consumption of electricity or gas,possible with gas,highly unlikely with electricity though.

As a wrote a few posts back, a building that is unoccupied for anything longer than a few weeks might turn off all electrical appliances.  Later I also thought that a house with solar panels and a battery might import no electricity on sunny summer days. 

Scot_39

Realistically ask yourself how many days of the year are you going to use less than 2kWh of electric and 2kWh ? of gas ?

And is that likely to be more of less than the average person who might be tempted to sign up with them ?

Because if your not careful - you are just paying their standing charges too.

From past posts - I seem to remember not only did they charge slightly more as the premium on the first 2 units than the equivalent SC - they also charge a premium on the "standard" unit rate.

The simple reason - essentially they need to over recover from those using power - to pay for the standing charges for the days when you and in reality others do not.

A duel fuel user might easily skip the 30p gas charge every 2nd day in summer if only using a gas boiler to heat a HW tank - someone else has to pay their 30p+/- for the days they pay zero.

Someone with Solar PV and a battery might use no electric most of the summer - and low use in winter - in which case your paying many of their 54p+/- too.

Someone with a holiday second home - only used a couple of months a year - saving 9-10m of SC ?

Someone with a remote garage etc needing a second meter only used occassionally (it they would accept them as customers)

If - your actual costs - don't work out as a 6p saving as you said you were quoted - and so you decide it was a real mistake and I fear you might have - if have a more standard usage profile - but not becuase of you randomly adding back another £30-40pm.

However as long as you havent entered a fixed term deal - you might be able to move - either possibly before - but perhaps - after the gas smart meter fitted.

Tony1989

There is no standing charge, yes. They do double the price of your first 2kWh meaning you're paying a the standing charge another way and I know it's different but I was told I would be saving that everyday, something like £1 per day which would equate to £30/month not paying extra in another way. 

It was basically a huge selling point, why would anyone want to save 60p the very few days that that they are on holiday or in hospital?

I'm going to ring them tomorrow and cancel. I have a date I can cancel by too I think it's the 24th.

Scot_39

If you feel it wasn't properly explained - that you would be paying more for the initial units - then their could be a case for a miss selling complaint.

But that then risks becomes a very much a he said / she said - unless it's also equally as unclear in writing.

Firms no longer have to charge you the standing charge - but AFAIK - they do have to pay the National Grid operators if you have an actual meter - capable of providing that supply (one not capped off / disconnected )- for every day you are registered on system as their customer - whether you use 0 kWh or 50kWh+

And with even the DD rates - regional average standing charges for Jul-Sep gas at c30p and electric at c54p - just over £300pa - that's a large proportion of many low users bills. Credit and prepay standing charge rates differ.

With my latest c9% cut to unit rates for Oct to Dec - my electric only SC - has just gone over 20% of my annual estimate.  

On the default cap tariffs - suppliers are allowed a 1.9% EBIT profit margin - that changes to 2.4% on Oct 1 - thats before some deductions like interest on debts - so not even their bottom line profit.

No operator is going to magically just absorb that sort of cost.

Especially on a tariff that probably appeals most to low users - or at least intermittent users - of energy.

And I have never seen their detailed terms - how they vet customers usage profile to protect themselves. And worst case that just means if they don't block low payers - average payer pays more to subsidize them.

la531983

Tony1989 said:

There is no standing charge, yes. They do double the price of your first 2kWh meaning you're paying a the standing charge another way and I know it's different but I was told I would be saving that everyday, something like £1 per day which would equate to £30/month not paying extra in another way. 

It was basically a huge selling point, why would anyone want to save 60p the very few days that that they are on holiday or in hospital?

I'm going to ring them tomorrow and cancel. I have a date I can cancel by too I think it's the 24th.

You said in the OP they told you that you would be saving 6p a year, not a pound a day. 

Anyway, if the cost is no different why bother going to the effort of bailing from it? On days you use no electric you are going to be saving money. You won't if you move back to what you were on before. 

MultiFuelBurner

I would suggest there was an element of doorstep miss sold but it seems the OP is still within the time period to cancel.

What is more concerning us these people knocking on I'll informed or elderly doorsteps.

The whole practice should be illegal imo.

la531983

MultiFuelBurner said:

I would suggest there was an element of doorstep miss sold but it seems the OP is still within the time period to cancel.

What is more concerning us these people knocking on I'll informed or elderly doorsteps.

The whole practice should be illegal imo.

Reading the OP and I don't get that impression at all. The lady did him a quote, told him he would only be saving 6p a year, but they he decided for some reason that must be wrong and he would actually be saving 30/40 quid a month and went ahead anyway.
He missold it to himself, nobody else did.

I still don't think he should bail from it, especially if he thinks he can have days where he uses less than 2kwH. 

TheElectricCow

Tony1989 said:

Here is are my electric tariffs....

Utilitas Tariff (electric)

I'm paying 30.01p / kWh/h
The first 2kW per day I pay 63.42p
Standing charge £0

Scottish Power Tariff (electric)
(Not 100% I paid this but this is what I found online)

28.25p / kW/h
Price per unit is the same for the 1st kW as last.
Standing charge 62.22p/day

Taking into account Utilita’s increased charge on the first two units, you’ve signed up for a more expensive tariff with a unit rate of 30.01p and what is effectively a standing charge of 66.82p, assuming a daily usage of 2kwh+. 

The key difference here is that you don’t actually have a standing charge on the tariff, just an equivalent added to the unit rates, so to take advantage of any savings you need to keep your usage below 2kwh per day, otherwise you’re just paying a higher unit than before for no benefit.

The only way to achieve the full 60p per day saving you’d been hoping for would be to use practically no electricity at all (approx 30p saving on 1kwh/day). Unless you’re confident you can regularly keep your usage that low, cancelling is likely your best option.