Internal Move from Project Manager to Product Manager - Salary negotiation ?

asdrubalex

Hi guys! 

I work for a software company as a Project Manager for a Product. 

I went for and recently got a role within the Product Management team.

I am still waiting for the HR process to conclude, but at the moment I still don't know how the compensation will look like. 

I earn a base salary and and a 13% bonus which is paid quarterly so long as you hit your billable hours. I hit these without fail. 

In the new product role, there is no similar bonus structure as they work on different targets. There is a 'corporate bonus' but in recent years this has not been paid out. 

I am still keen to proceed with the product role, but at a minimum I would like them to add to my base salary at least 70% of my bonus - and that still means I am taking a pay cut - but I would be learning a new skill. This amounts to a 9% pay rise roughly. 

I feel this is also fair as typically Product managers are paid more. 

My rationale if they low ball me to go back and ask for a higher amount will be:

I bring value to the team on account of:

Knowledge of accounts

Client contacts

Internal contacts

4 languages spoken fluently (this is for text analysis so very useful)

Extensive knowledge of the product

I expect them to lowball me as the company is notorious to try and keep salaries down. 

Do I have a case here? or is it unreasonable to try and make such demands?  Any advice would be appreciated. 

thanks!

El_Torro

How much would they pay someone if they were recruiting them externally? If it's more than what you're asking for then I'd say there's a good chance you'll get what you ask for. If it's not more than what you're asking for then you may need to compromise if you really want the job. 

You can justify your request with the points you make. It's always worth highlighting the value you will bring to the role. I would be honest though and say that you don't want to take a big pay cut, especially if as you say Product Managers tend to be paid more than Project Managers. 

Some companies pay as little as they can get away with, especially with internal promotions. If as you say your company is like that then you will have to put your case across strongly.

asdrubalex

Thanks - Indeed. 

I have no idea what they pay if hiring externally - I'm not sure what the banding is for that role.

I do know for my current role that I'm below average for the band even though I'm one of their top performers (so it says something)  - and I know from glassdoors that the comp for a product manager is higher for the company - but then again I never know how reliable those are.

I know that from the low ends of the bands to the top end of the band it can be as much as 25k width... and they will try and probably argue me down with my non experience as a product manager despite having in depth experience of the product. 

HR still haven't engaged me to discuss the offer weirdly enough - which I wish they would do because I would like to get these points across before I get the final offer and go back and say - actually this isn't good enough. 

DullGreyGuy

On average product managers earn more than project managers however personally I think that's because there are many more junior project managers than product managers and so the average is dragged down.  If you look at the experienced end of the market then the two sets of salaries are much closer 

Internal or external a job application is a negotiation, when I went from project to product (non-agile style) internally I was offered the salary I asked for but they put me right at the top of job band C and so I negotiated for the role to become a D band which meant my salary was just below the mid point. The advantage being future pay rises would be more as they hold back those above the 75% of the band even if you are doing exceptional job. 

asdrubalex

DullGreyGuy said:

On average product managers earn more than project managers however personally I think that's because there are many more junior project managers than product managers and so the average is dragged down.  If you look at the experienced end of the market then the two sets of salaries are much closer 

Internal or external a job application is a negotiation, when I went from project to product (non-agile style) internally I was offered the salary I asked for but they put me right at the top of job band C and so I negotiated for the role to become a D band which meant my salary was just below the mid point. The advantage being future pay rises would be more as they hold back those above the 75% of the band even if you are doing exceptional job. 

Thank you sir! Roughly do you know what % increase you managed to negotiate so I can use that as a base for comparison?

Marcon

asdrubalex said:

DullGreyGuy said:

On average product managers earn more than project managers however personally I think that's because there are many more junior project managers than product managers and so the average is dragged down.  If you look at the experienced end of the market then the two sets of salaries are much closer 

Internal or external a job application is a negotiation, when I went from project to product (non-agile style) internally I was offered the salary I asked for but they put me right at the top of job band C and so I negotiated for the role to become a D band which meant my salary was just below the mid point. The advantage being future pay rises would be more as they hold back those above the 75% of the band even if you are doing exceptional job. 

Thank you sir! Roughly do you know what % increase you managed to negotiate so I can use that as a base for comparison?

I don't think that knowledge is going to help you much - there are too many variables for it to be any sort of valid comparator, and salary alone isn't the issue: you need to look at the overall package. If you don't factor in the perks (pension contributions, possible car, health cover etc) you get a hopelessly misleading picture.

asdrubalex said:

Hi guys! 

I work for a software company as a Project Manager for a Product. 

I went for and recently got a role within the Product Management team.

I am still waiting for the HR process to conclude, but at the moment I still don't know how the compensation will look like. 

You've substantially weakened your negotiating power by apparently accepting the role without even knowing, let alone agreeing, the remuneration package (a lesson for the next time!). You've now got to strike a balance between impressing with your enthusiasm, commitment to the new role and all the added value you can bring v your natural reluctance to take a pay cut. Not easy but far from impossible - but you do need to think through, very carefully, what you are prepared to accept and how you'll react if your employer won't meet your minimum expectations. 

Very best of luck!

DullGreyGuy

asdrubalex said:

DullGreyGuy said:

On average product managers earn more than project managers however personally I think that's because there are many more junior project managers than product managers and so the average is dragged down.  If you look at the experienced end of the market then the two sets of salaries are much closer 

Internal or external a job application is a negotiation, when I went from project to product (non-agile style) internally I was offered the salary I asked for but they put me right at the top of job band C and so I negotiated for the role to become a D band which meant my salary was just below the mid point. The advantage being future pay rises would be more as they hold back those above the 75% of the band even if you are doing exceptional job. 

Thank you sir! Roughly do you know what % increase you managed to negotiate so I can use that as a base for comparison?

My situation was different as I was grossly underpaid as a PM because I had jumped from the call centre to being a PM in the strategy team via a secondment. My uplifts in money as a percentage had been massive and the maximum allowed but when you apply those to a small base salary you stay on a not great salary. 

 When I moved to Product manager it was a different division of the group and so I was an internal mover but we had separate HR functions, policies, grading systems etc and so was internal but it wasnt like the new HR could quickly look up my current salary or map my current grade to the proposed grade.

So going from PM to Prod Manager I got a 65% pay increase but then I left the company and became a PM again and got a 50% pay rise again. I then left that job to go contracting as PM (generally easier than a Prod Manger) and effectively knocked two zeros off and that became my day rate. 

I occasionally discuss Prod Manager/Owner roles, the monies tend to be the same on a contract basis. I decline many discussions though because in my experience Prod is more often inside IR35