Horizon PCN, Tesco carpark, Scotland. POFA compliance??

hollypollymolly

Hi,

I received a PCN from Horizon after exceeding maximum stay period. Anonymised image attached. 

To be completely honest we had parked there in order to watch a cycling event and this was the obvious (but ill chosen) parking spot. We did shop in the store on return to the vehicle though, but only for a few bits and pieces. I think the time stamps are accurate. 

The parking period limit simply did not occur to us at the time, we were visiting the area and do not live there (>1.5 hrs away normally). 

I know the advice on the Newbies thread is to complain to store and then submit template letter to the parking company, same as England/Wales. I will have a go with Tesco but can't contact the store directly and most replies on Twitter seem to advise speaking to Horizon directly and nothing Tesco can do. 

My question is regarding POFA wording and timescales as this seemed a bit confusing in the Newbies thread: 

"Check the compliance of your Notice to Keeper, if the PPC is citing 'keeper liability' under the POFA. Here's a link to Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 which applies in England/Wales only (look for the words shown in paragraph 8 if it's a 'windscreen ticket followed by a NTK', or the words in paragraph 9 if it's a postal PCN only):

If the NTK arrives late, this does not make the PCN 'void' but it means there is 'no keeper liability' possible.

If they are a firm which alleges 'keeper liability' under the POFA 2012 (which they don't have to!) the a postal PCN must arrive by day 14 if there was no windscreen ticket.

Or, the NTK must arrive with you between day 29 and day 57 if there was a windscreen PCN.

Some firms (e.g. Civil Enforcement, Highview, Smart Parking, CP Plus and some small PPCs) don't even bother with POFA 2012 wording so the keeper is not liable and you must you point that out to POPLA."

This states that it only applies in England and Wales. 

My PCN states that the vehicle breached the conditions on 9th August. the PCN is dated 1st September but was only received yesterday 11th September. There was no windscreen PCN. 

So my understanding is that this PCN is not compliant as it was issued and arrived >14days after the alleged breach. BUT does this also apply in Scotland?? Or am I a bit scunnered. 

Thank you for any help/advice, I have looked through the threads but couldn't see anything specifically on this. 

Coupon-mad

Ignore it.

Scotland advice is clear. You don't engage.

Get the retailer to cancel it. Why are you using Twitter?  Just phone up or email your complaint to the Complaints team at Tesco Dundee or to the CEO by name.

hollypollymolly

Hmm, this is the advice in the Newbies thread for Scotland currently.... Nothing about not engaging. So not sure it is that clear!!

Q - ''I'm in Scotland/NI, so is the advice different?''

YES. IF THE EVENT TOOK PLACE IN SCOTLAND OR NORTHERN IRELAND, WE SUGGEST YOU DO (ALWAYS!) COMPLAIN TO STORE MANAGEMENT IF YOUR PCN IS FROM A RETAIL PARK, AND SEND THE USUAL TEMPLATE APPEAL FOR YOUR CASE, NOT SAYING WHO WAS DRIVING. HOWEVER, DO NOT TRY POPLA BECAUSE POPLA (IN A CASE THAT TOOK PLACE OUTSIDE ENGLAND/WALE) WILL REQUIRE YOU TO STATE IF YOU WERE DRIVING OR NOT, AND THAT IS THE ONE THING NOT TO DISCLOSE.

Coupon-mad

"HOWEVER, DO NOT TRY POPLA".

The point I tty to make there, is there's no point appealing - or wasting a nano-second of your life on this nullity - because Scotland doesn't have the POFA (yet)..

Things will change in 2024.  I have given detailed answers in some Scottish threads about it.  Search the forum for:

Scotland keeper liability 2024

or similar. 

hollypollymolly

Ok, found the below from a previous thread and clearer now. Will contact Tesco complaints and ignore. 
Thanks 

"All normal. But this isn't to be paid under any circumstances! 

Complain to the retail park anyway but WITHOUT SAYING WHO WAS DRIVING.

If this was in Scotland why would you think about paying, after reading the NEWBIES thread?

I had hoped that the sticky makes it clear about Scotland being different (at the moment).  As quoted above by Le_Kirk.

The law will change (for the better) in 2024 for new PCNs, as this rogue industry is to be regulated in the UK.  Unfortunately, to be brought in line with England you will get 'keeper liability' which will be a bad change for Scottish keepers - but the rest will be fairer.  For new PCNs in 2024.

But you don't have keeper liability in 2023 so obviously ignore these daft threatograms.

Certainly DO NOT give away who was driving!

Not a single poster here will advise you to pay a private parking charge in Scotland. Are you getting bad advice from other people who don't know that keeper liability isn't a thing yet and are unaware that practically no parking cases are ever brought to a Scottish court?

Britannia won't.

Enjoy the £170 letters. They make good hamster cage bedding or to line your cat litter tray."

Coupon-mad

That's the one!