Statement of Defence attached (cloning case) – need to mail in 48 hours. What do you think of it? :)

stevebanjo

Hi, 

First, thanks to all the regulars here for the incredible advice on this site. It’s been a lifesaver! I’m now looking for your feedback on my written defence, if you have the time. Thank you  It's a long Statement, so I don't blame you if you don't! You can download it from

Background: I came to this process late, assuming my initial watertight appeal (to UKPC) would obviously result in them dropping the case, as it would be madness to pursue. Apparently not, as it’s now a county court claim (Northhampton – N1 issue date, 18 Aug 2023), receiving which first brought me to this site. 

So: 

• Acknowledgement of Service successfully filed within 14 days

• Prior to that,I just made an appeal to UKPC and QDR, phone calls,  then ignored the escalation of letters. But now we’re at N1 stage, I’ve joined the forum, read the Newbies advice (a lot of it too late), plus a good 50 other threads for inspiration! 

• Statement of Defence now written and must be mailed and/or emailed this week (ideally by Wednesday – I’d be nervous leaving it longer, as it must be there by Friday 15 September).

2 things in particular I’m looking for, for anyone who wants to wade into my case. 

1. Does my defence look sound, and are there any other cases/precedents you think I should be citing? I used Coupon-Mad's Template defence, initially, but much of it doesn’t apply to the specific defence I’m making, so I have adapted it greatly. In short, I’m not contesting their rights to charge, inflated prices, occupiers’ liability, etc. – my defence is simply that I’m completely the wrong person! It wasn’t my car. So it's harassment of an innocent.
   
   
2. Counterclaim: This whole thing has p**sed me off royally, and I want to hammer them with damages, and I think have a good case to demand them (for as much as “I deserve it” matters to the judge, I know I know, cynics! But all the same, we all have to try). Question is: 
   

1. a) How much do you think is a legitimate £amount to ask for on each of the 4 given counterclaim allegations I make (negligence/duty of care, harassment, vexation, blackmail)? Conn v Sunderland got £2k for harassment; Ferguson vs British Gas got £5k. I want to match that at least. Amounts stated at the end of my defence.
   
   
2. b) I am unclear what happens if I ask for more than £10k (as, cumulatively, I will have done on two of those points, and on all of them once personal expenses are added to the total – see Appendix A of my Defence for the expenses). Will that put me on a different track? Do I want/not want that? 

I won’t rehash the case details – it’s all in the statement. Just one point I know is contentious on these boards: It was not my car and the police investigated it and confirmed evidence of a cloning (the number plates are different colours). So the cloning is a matter of police record, I have appealed to UKPC with the crime reference number, which they have ignored, and therefore my defence is that this is vexatious litigation, harassment, negligence, or blackmail – or all of the above.

stevebanjo

Oh rats, it won't let me post a link as I'm too new. How do I get round this? 

Does this work: 

we.tl/t-QnsPvy3qCh

Fruitcake

I have no idea what to do with that link. Is there supposed to be https or www in front of it?

Most people use dropbox or similar and post a link to that.

I'm not sure why you didn't use the template defence. Using that and amending paragraphs 2 and 3 to suit your case would have been very quick and easy. 

Counterclaims are notoriously difficult to win, but since UKPC will dump this case when it gets near the court date, it's the only way you can stop a discontinuance. I hope you know what you are doing.
I doubt you will get anywhere near the amounts you are claiming even if you do win. The going rate for a DPA/GDPR breach is about £250 to £500, so be warned.

B789

With an issue date of the 18th of August, you have until 4 p.m. on the 20th of September to file your defence. If you're filing it by email (as recommended), you can file it at 3:59 pm on the day and it will be OK.

Without being able to see your defence and counterclaim, you are not going to get much other advice. You could type the link and just replace the https with httpx or something.

Coupon-mad

I think you have a good case to counterclaim.  They are notoriously hard to plead and win, though.

If I were you I'd ask David (who posts here on the forum as @bargepole ) if he fancies taking it on and writing you a well-pleaded defence & counterclaim. For a small fee he can help you:

https://smallclaimsadvisor.co.uk/

I am completely unconnected to the firm and have never been involved in it, just to be clear!

I am suggesting this route because I think your CC should be 4 figures and I know David has done this before, successfully.

You will not get 5 figures!

stevebanjo

Fruitcake said:

I have no idea what to do with that link. Is there supposed to be https or www in front of it?

Most people use dropbox or similar and post a link to that.

I'm not sure why you didn't use the template defence. Using that and amending paragraphs 2 and 3 to suit your case would have been very quick and easy. 

Counterclaims are notoriously difficult to win, but since UKPC will dump this case when it gets near the court date, it's the only way you can stop a discontinuance. I hope you know what you are doing.
I doubt you will get anywhere near the amounts you are claiming even if you do win. The going rate for a DPA/GDPR breach is about £250 to £500, so be warned.

Sorry, yes, it's a WeTransfer link to the PDF.  It's supposed to have https:// in front of it

Yeah, I know counterclaims are difficult and it's maybe a fool's errand, which is why I've mounted a substantial and detailed defence – also as you say, so that they don't just issue a discontinuance. We can only try.... 

The reason I didn't use most of the template defence is that (a) it's already substantial enough just arguing that failing to read my appeal and contact the police to follow up the crime-reference number amounts to negligence and harassment, and/or that reading it and still escalating to CC claim represents vexatious litigation or blackmail – so focusing on the details of occupiers' liability isn't relevant. They can charge whatever they want to the people who cloned my car. My argument is that none of it applies to me!

stevebanjo

B789 said:

With an issue date of the 18th of August, you have until 4 p.m. on the 20th of September to file your defence. If you're filing it by email (as recommended), you can file it at 3:59 pm on the day and it will be OK.

Without being able to see your defence and counterclaim, you are not going to get much other advice. You could type the link and just replace the https with httpx or something.

Sorry sorry, the Issue Date was 14 August – so it was already 28 days from that yesterday (11 September). 

stevebanjo

B789 said:

Without being able to see your defence and counterclaim, you are not going to get much other advice. 

You could type the link and just replace the https with httpx or something.

Can you access this, if you change the "x" to "s"?

httpx://we.tl/t-QnsPvy3qCh

Coupon-mad

stevebanjo said:

B789 said:

With an issue date of the 18th of August, you have until 4 p.m. on the 20th of September to file your defence. If you're filing it by email (as recommended), you can file it at 3:59 pm on the day and it will be OK.

Without being able to see your defence and counterclaim, you are not going to get much other advice. You could type the link and just replace the https with httpx or something.

Sorry sorry, the Issue Date was 14 August – so it was already 28 days from that yesterday (11 September). 

Yes but you don't only count on 28 days.

Please consider what I advised if you want a hope of winning your counterclaim.

stevebanjo

Coupon-mad said:

I think you have a good case to counterclaim.  They are notoriously hard to plead and win, though.

If I were you I'd ask David (who posts here on the forum as @bargepole ) if he fancies taking it on and writing you a well-pleaded defence & counterclaim. For a small fee he can help you:

I am completely unconnected to the firm and have never bern involved in it, just to be clear!

I am suggesting this route because I think your CC should be 4 figures and I know David has done this before, successfully.

You will not get 5 figures!

Thank you. I mean, the defence and counterclaim are already written and are substantial (i.e., long) – as you can hopefully see now by the new links I've provided. So I think it's too late to start writing another one. But I'd certainly welcome David's advice, I've got a lot from him on these boards! 

But thank you that's good guidance re counterclaim – Ferguson v British Gas got £5k for harassment and I want to match that in my harassment counterclaim, as I cite it in the Statement of Defence and draw comparisons, and I think (?) I have a case at least to argue comparability. But I am additionally mounting separate claims for:

1) Negligence (Breach of duty of care by omissions, and breach of duty of care by acts)
2) Vexatious litigation (if they did actually read my appeal but discounted it)
3) Blackmail (if they did read my appeal, saw my innocence, but decided to shake me down for money anyway)  

So want to know what's a solid number to ask for in those circumstances, if I'm already saying £5k for harassment? 

Also, depending on the judgement (as outlined in my Statement), those claims would be added together (and added to +£1.3k for expenses, detailed in the Appendix). So, net, that would take the claim over £10k. Theoretically, what happens if that's my counterclaim? 

Coupon-mad

Not blackmail.

You CANNOT accuse that and actually open yourself up to costs against you for unreasonableness if you use words like that,

This is why I suggest you ask David.