Freeholder filed money claim for non-payment of ground rent/services - CCJ?

eddddy

bertie1979 said:

It's a buy to let property, 

OK....

So did the "missing letters" get sent to the property - and the tenants didn't bother forwarding them?

Did the Leaseholder advise the Management Company in writing of an address to send notices, etc?


(The legislation is not straightforward about what address should be used for posting notices to leaseholders - but I think that tribunals accept that if the leaseholder has provided a correspondence address in writing, that should be used.)




TBH, I've heard of other cases where a leaseholder provides a correspondence address - and the accounts / mailing system automatically sends bills and standard letters to that address.

But then a human sends a non-standard letter (e.g. threatening legal action), and the human forgets to look if there is a separate correspondence address for that property.

eddddy

bertie1979 said:

So when he pays the solicitor, does he say he'll be taking it to tribunal?
Or just pay then do the tribunal route after hia sale has gone through?
Actually can he take them to tribunal if he no longer owns the property?

Yes - he can go to tribunal after he's sold the property.


If it were me, I might write something like this to the solicitor...

I plan to pay the sum of £3813.16 on the strict understanding that the full amount represents Leasehold Service Charges and/or Leasehold Administration Charges as defined in: the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985; Commonhold and Leasehold reform act 2002; and elsewhere. And those charges are payable to [Freeholder].

If this is not the case, please contact me urgently to explain what the payments are for, and what legal basis you believe you have for charging them.

I do not consent to the payment being used for any other purpose - such as offsetting against any amount that you believe I owe you, [freeholder], or anyone else. 

I am making this payment under protest, as I do not believe the amount is reasonable.

Once I have taken further advice I may challenge these charges at a tribunal.

BUT... if the leaseholder is selling the flat...

• The leaseholder will probably have to declare this dispute to the prospective purchaser - especially if it is ongoing at the time

• The Management Company will probably declare this dispute to the prospective purchaser - especially if it is ongoing at the time

The prospective purchaser might be spooked and ask lots of questions and decide... "I don't want to buy a flat where the management company seem to charge leaseholders £2200 legal fees with no justification."

bertie1979

eddddy said:

bertie1979 said:

It's a buy to let property, 

OK....

So did the "missing letters" get sent to the property - and the tenants didn't bother forwarding them?

Did the Leaseholder advise the Management Company in writing of an address to send notices, etc?


(The legislation is not straightforward about what address should be used for posting notices to leaseholders - but I think that tribunals accept that if the leaseholder has provided a correspondence address in writing, that should be used.)




TBH, I've heard of other cases where a leaseholder provides a correspondence address - and the accounts / mailing system automatically sends bills and standard letters to that address.

But then a human sends a non-standard letter (e.g. threatening legal action), and the human forgets to look if there is a separate correspondence address for that property.

he receives all letters to his home address and also had previously agreed to have letters emailed as well, plus his tenant moved out in March and he regularly visits the property to check for mail, etc. and to keep an eye on it while the sale goes through (ongoing 4 months now...)

i believe he received an LBA previously back in December and as soon as he received, he rang them up and agreed the payment plan.

that's his main gripe that if he had received the LBA, he would've sorted it out and not had this extra £2k+ added on top.

eddddy

The back-story seems to change with every post.

FWIW, the following statements don't seem to make sense.  The statements might make some sense if you mean "Reminder Letter about non-payment" rather than "LBA".

bertie1979 said:

i believe he received an LBA previously back in December and as soon as he received, he rang them up and agreed the payment plan.

that's his main gripe that if he had received the LBA, he would've sorted it out and not had this extra £2k+ added on top.

If the leaseholder wants any chance of winning in court or at a tribunal, he'll have to present a logical, coherent case. 

Jonboy_1984

Frankly anyone in any business playing the wait for a LBA before paying game for every bill is likely to trip themselves up eventually and end up with such extra costs.

(written as someone who has formerly done credit control and seen it time and time again).

eddddy

Jonboy_1984 said:

Frankly anyone in any business playing the wait for a LBA before paying game for every bill is likely to trip themselves up eventually and end up with such extra costs.

(written as someone who has formerly done credit control and seen it time and time again).

With Service Charges, the situation is much worse than with most other types of debt.

When you receive a LBA it's "too late".

By the time a LBA arrives, thousands of pounds of Late Fees and Legal Fees will already have been incurred.

So if you wait for a LBA - you'll then have to pay thousands of pounds of extra fees.



(That's why the OP's argument that "the leaseholder didn't receive a LBA" is missing the main point. The leaseholder probably already owes the £2.2k in late fees, before any LBA is sent.)

bertie1979

eddddy said:

The back-story seems to change with every post.

FWIW, the following statements don't seem to make sense.  The statements might make some sense if you mean "Reminder Letter about non-payment" rather than "LBA".

bertie1979 said:

i believe he received an LBA previously back in December and as soon as he received, he rang them up and agreed the payment plan.

that's his main gripe that if he had received the LBA, he would've sorted it out and not had this extra £2k+ added on top.

If the leaseholder wants any chance of winning in court or at a tribunal, he'll have to present a logical, coherent case. 

Story isn't changing, as OP says I'm posting on behalf of someone else.
he's now told me the previous LBA for non-payment was actually in January 2022, I think that was again as he was in dispute with their charging for things that weren't actually done at the property like cleaning & gardening.
The point he was making was that he had received letters previously about different things, he'd even received a previous LBA and dealt with it within 2 hours of opening the letter.

As said thanks for the info, he's speaking with the advice line tomorrow.

eddddy

bertie1979 said:

The point he was making was that he had received letters previously about different things, he'd even received a previous LBA and dealt with it within 2 hours of opening the letter.

We probably cross posted - see my reply to @Jonboy_1984 above.

chanz4

240 for an lba which is a template? max £40

bertie1979

chanz4 said:

240 for an lba which is a template? max £40

Trust me, this is the kind of stuff he's been unhappy with.
£1200 for the "file preparation fee" assuming that's his account statement, lease info & previous letters to be sent to the solicitors.