Solar PV with or without battery?

Exiled_Tyke

pensionpawn said:

1961Nick said:

I still think there's a case for a small battery operating in the 4pm to 7pm peak rate window. With careful planning the ROI could be £300pa after round trip losses. A 5kWh battery costs around £1500 & fitted with a new install doesn't require an additional inverter. It would also negate the need to load shift & provide an EPS.

As an add on to an existing system a 5 kWhr GiveEnergy hybrid inverter battery is just short of £2k (inc VaT). So that's 5 kWhrs a day at 13.23p which is roughly £240 pa, giving a RoI of ~ 8 years (5 with your numbers)! That's of course if Flux like tariffs don't vanish / become uneconomical over that time period. Horses for courses, however I've played my waiting game once, 7.25 years for my original install to RoI. I'll sit this one out as I prefer to pay to be in control and not be held hostage to market forces.

We'll each have are own numbers.  My battery (which is 5.7kWh useable (plus some round trip losses to consider) saves me around 24p per kWh on electricity I import from the grid and 33p per unit on electricity from the PV and can't use immediately. So I reckon at current rates is saving at least £400 per year.  But I don't really consider it being hostage to market forces but rather a hedge against market forces - I'm less susceptible to the effects of them knowing I can charge up cheaply.  i.e. rather than thinking 'I'll only get a decent return if prices stay high' my thinking is 'I've locked in most of my useage at the cheapest rate available and some a great deal for 'free''.  (Note: I don't sell as I get a FIT rate I'm happy with and the car also takes excess PV up - it might not be the best deal but with the hassle of switching over AND working out all the maths AND giving up FIT is a one time only decision, I'd rather keep it like that). 

JKenH

Exiled_Tyke said:

pensionpawn said:

1961Nick said:

I still think there's a case for a small battery operating in the 4pm to 7pm peak rate window. With careful planning the ROI could be £300pa after round trip losses. A 5kWh battery costs around £1500 & fitted with a new install doesn't require an additional inverter. It would also negate the need to load shift & provide an EPS.

As an add on to an existing system a 5 kWhr GiveEnergy hybrid inverter battery is just short of £2k (inc VaT). So that's 5 kWhrs a day at 13.23p which is roughly £240 pa, giving a RoI of ~ 8 years (5 with your numbers)! That's of course if Flux like tariffs don't vanish / become uneconomical over that time period. Horses for courses, however I've played my waiting game once, 7.25 years for my original install to RoI. I'll sit this one out as I prefer to pay to be in control and not be held hostage to market forces.

We'll each have are own numbers.  My battery (which is 5.7kWh useable (plus some round trip losses to consider) saves me around 24p per kWh on electricity I import from the grid and 33p per unit on electricity from the PV and can't use immediately. So I reckon at current rates is saving at least £400 per year.  But I don't really consider it being hostage to market forces but rather a hedge against market forces - I'm less susceptible to the effects of them knowing I can charge up cheaply.  i.e. rather than thinking 'I'll only get a decent return if prices stay high' my thinking is 'I've locked in most of my useage at the cheapest rate available and some a great deal for 'free''.  (Note: I don't sell as I get a FIT rate I'm happy with and the car also takes excess PV up - it might not be the best deal but with the hassle of switching over AND working out all the maths AND giving up FIT is a one time only decision, I'd rather keep it like that). 

You don’t have to give up FiT, only the export element which works it about 3p per kWh generated. With Octopus paying 8p for export when on the Go tariff it’s worth thinking about. I lose about £160 pa FiT export but since May have earned over £500 export on Flux. Even with a Zappi it’s hard to send all your surplus to the car.  Yesterday was lousy weather with only 5.4 kWh generation but 1.9 kWh was still exported.

pensionpawn

JKenH said:

Exiled_Tyke said:

pensionpawn said:

1961Nick said:

I still think there's a case for a small battery operating in the 4pm to 7pm peak rate window. With careful planning the ROI could be £300pa after round trip losses. A 5kWh battery costs around £1500 & fitted with a new install doesn't require an additional inverter. It would also negate the need to load shift & provide an EPS.

As an add on to an existing system a 5 kWhr GiveEnergy hybrid inverter battery is just short of £2k (inc VaT). So that's 5 kWhrs a day at 13.23p which is roughly £240 pa, giving a RoI of ~ 8 years (5 with your numbers)! That's of course if Flux like tariffs don't vanish / become uneconomical over that time period. Horses for courses, however I've played my waiting game once, 7.25 years for my original install to RoI. I'll sit this one out as I prefer to pay to be in control and not be held hostage to market forces.

We'll each have are own numbers.  My battery (which is 5.7kWh useable (plus some round trip losses to consider) saves me around 24p per kWh on electricity I import from the grid and 33p per unit on electricity from the PV and can't use immediately. So I reckon at current rates is saving at least £400 per year.  But I don't really consider it being hostage to market forces but rather a hedge against market forces - I'm less susceptible to the effects of them knowing I can charge up cheaply.  i.e. rather than thinking 'I'll only get a decent return if prices stay high' my thinking is 'I've locked in most of my useage at the cheapest rate available and some a great deal for 'free''.  (Note: I don't sell as I get a FIT rate I'm happy with and the car also takes excess PV up - it might not be the best deal but with the hassle of switching over AND working out all the maths AND giving up FIT is a one time only decision, I'd rather keep it like that). 

You don’t have to give up FiT, only the export element which works it about 3p per kWh generated. With Octopus paying 8p for export when on the Go tariff it’s worth thinking about. I lose about £160 pa FiT export but since May have earned over £500 export on Flux. Even with a Zappi it’s hard to send all your surplus to the car.  Yesterday was lousy weather with only 5.4 kWh generation but 1.9 kWh was still exported.

Similar here. Over 16 weeks I've swapped £112 in deemed export for £554 in metered export. No battery required. That doesn't include generation FiT.

Exiled_Tyke

JKenH said:

Exiled_Tyke said:

pensionpawn said:

1961Nick said:

I still think there's a case for a small battery operating in the 4pm to 7pm peak rate window. With careful planning the ROI could be £300pa after round trip losses. A 5kWh battery costs around £1500 & fitted with a new install doesn't require an additional inverter. It would also negate the need to load shift & provide an EPS.

As an add on to an existing system a 5 kWhr GiveEnergy hybrid inverter battery is just short of £2k (inc VaT). So that's 5 kWhrs a day at 13.23p which is roughly £240 pa, giving a RoI of ~ 8 years (5 with your numbers)! That's of course if Flux like tariffs don't vanish / become uneconomical over that time period. Horses for courses, however I've played my waiting game once, 7.25 years for my original install to RoI. I'll sit this one out as I prefer to pay to be in control and not be held hostage to market forces.

We'll each have are own numbers.  My battery (which is 5.7kWh useable (plus some round trip losses to consider) saves me around 24p per kWh on electricity I import from the grid and 33p per unit on electricity from the PV and can't use immediately. So I reckon at current rates is saving at least £400 per year.  But I don't really consider it being hostage to market forces but rather a hedge against market forces - I'm less susceptible to the effects of them knowing I can charge up cheaply.  i.e. rather than thinking 'I'll only get a decent return if prices stay high' my thinking is 'I've locked in most of my useage at the cheapest rate available and some a great deal for 'free''.  (Note: I don't sell as I get a FIT rate I'm happy with and the car also takes excess PV up - it might not be the best deal but with the hassle of switching over AND working out all the maths AND giving up FIT is a one time only decision, I'd rather keep it like that). 

You don’t have to give up FiT, only the export element which works it about 3p per kWh generated. With Octopus paying 8p for export when on the Go tariff it’s worth thinking about. I lose about £160 pa FiT export but since May have earned over £500 export on Flux. Even with a Zappi it’s hard to send all your surplus to the car.  Yesterday was lousy weather with only 5.4 kWh generation but 1.9 kWh was still exported.

I've already explained my reasons. but right now I'm barely exporting - perhaps as my system is quite small. My lousy 'yesterday' was 3kWh. None was exported as all self-used and then I needed to fill the car overnight. 

JKenH

Exiled_Tyke said:

JKenH said:

Exiled_Tyke said:

pensionpawn said:

1961Nick said:

I still think there's a case for a small battery operating in the 4pm to 7pm peak rate window. With careful planning the ROI could be £300pa after round trip losses. A 5kWh battery costs around £1500 & fitted with a new install doesn't require an additional inverter. It would also negate the need to load shift & provide an EPS.

As an add on to an existing system a 5 kWhr GiveEnergy hybrid inverter battery is just short of £2k (inc VaT). So that's 5 kWhrs a day at 13.23p which is roughly £240 pa, giving a RoI of ~ 8 years (5 with your numbers)! That's of course if Flux like tariffs don't vanish / become uneconomical over that time period. Horses for courses, however I've played my waiting game once, 7.25 years for my original install to RoI. I'll sit this one out as I prefer to pay to be in control and not be held hostage to market forces.

We'll each have are own numbers.  My battery (which is 5.7kWh useable (plus some round trip losses to consider) saves me around 24p per kWh on electricity I import from the grid and 33p per unit on electricity from the PV and can't use immediately. So I reckon at current rates is saving at least £400 per year.  But I don't really consider it being hostage to market forces but rather a hedge against market forces - I'm less susceptible to the effects of them knowing I can charge up cheaply.  i.e. rather than thinking 'I'll only get a decent return if prices stay high' my thinking is 'I've locked in most of my useage at the cheapest rate available and some a great deal for 'free''.  (Note: I don't sell as I get a FIT rate I'm happy with and the car also takes excess PV up - it might not be the best deal but with the hassle of switching over AND working out all the maths AND giving up FIT is a one time only decision, I'd rather keep it like that). 

You don’t have to give up FiT, only the export element which works it about 3p per kWh generated. With Octopus paying 8p for export when on the Go tariff it’s worth thinking about. I lose about £160 pa FiT export but since May have earned over £500 export on Flux. Even with a Zappi it’s hard to send all your surplus to the car.  Yesterday was lousy weather with only 5.4 kWh generation but 1.9 kWh was still exported.

I've already explained my reasons. but right now I'm barely exporting - perhaps as my system is quite small. My lousy 'yesterday' was 3kWh. None was exported as all self-used and then I needed to fill the car overnight. 

If you have a battery then at this time of year it will probably mop up any surplus generation. My DNO said no to a battery so I opted for Flux. I can understand if you have an EV as well that Flux won’t work for you but if you are on Go you would be in profit moving away from deemed export if you export more than 3/8ths of your generation. If you are on IO, I believe the export rate is 15p so you only need to export 3/15ths (20%) of your generation to break even. In the latter case it would pay to import enough to fill your batteries and export as much solar as you can. 

Exiled_Tyke

Sadly I don't qualify for IO so on GO.  I now use more than 60% of production so it's a near thing. But if electricity prices recede at all then FIT will work out better. 

pensionpawn

pensionpawn said:

QrizB said:

pensionpawn said:

However if you buy a battery based on a tariff like Flux and that tariff is withdrawn, or changed in a way that no longer benefits, what then? Well you're back to just avoiding random imports, which may have a very long RoI...

There was a very agitated poster on the main Energy forum a few weeks ago, ranting that he'd bought a Powerwall and it was unfair for Octopus to withdraw the Tesla tariff. Claimed it had ruined his ROI.

I believe that a battery with 4 wheels and a bi-direction charger is the way to go, literally!

Could be as early as next year... https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1140803_2024-kia-ev9-bidirectional-charging-here-s-how-it-will-work