Chancel repair liability

propertyrental

and the question is......?

sheramber

propertyrental said:

and the question is......?

Question in the last sentence on the original post.

daivid

I bought in 2016 and was offered an indemnity for £15 it felt like a money spinner but at the price it wasn’t worth spending time researching - and as my indemnity was based on uncertain liability had I discovered the property was liable I'd have no longer been entitled to the £15 indemnity. At £90 and with a £100k limit I think I would be refusing. I cannot see any Church going after repair liability from normal home owners as surely the 1st time it happens will bring about a change in the law and a backlash against the CoE. 

Giddypip

I'd be questioning the cost and cover of the indemnity policy. I've just purchased chancel indemnity for £15.33 for £2 million cover.

TBagpuss

daivid said:

I bought in 2016 and was offered an indemnity for £15 it felt like a money spinner but at the price it wasn’t worth spending time researching - and as my indemnity was based on uncertain liability had I discovered the property was liable I'd have no longer been entitled to the £15 indemnity. At £90 and with a £100k limit I think I would be refusing. I cannot see any Church going after repair liability from normal home owners as surely the 1st time it happens will bring about a change in the law and a backlash against the CoE. 

The first time (in recent memory) it happened was in 2009, and it did result in a change in the law. The change protects homeowners where the property changes hands after 2013 and where the church hasn't registered an interest against the property before that transfer complete. The people concerned were liable to pay £235,000 and ended up having to sell their home (in fairness they did have legal fees on top, but even so, it's a lot of money to lose) 

So - if the house you are buying has changed hands since 2013 and there's noting recorded on the deeds, you are fine and don't need the policy.

If it hasn't changes hands then the church could still register their interest and you and any future buyer would be stuffed. 
One problem is that  in many cases, the people having to decide whether to claim / register and rights are trustees on the church / parish council, and they have a legal duty to act in the best interest of the beneficiary of the trust (normally the church / parish) so they are in a catch 22 situation where if they don't register, then they could be seen as failing in their legal duty and therefore personally liable, if they do, it's a very bad look for them and the local church.

Some parishes took decisions not to register and I think got the blessing of the CofE / indemnities from the church to protect themselves, but not all. 

I think, also , that they don't necessarily have to split any liability equally, so of there is a group of properties and some have changes hands recently and others haven't, they can still register the liability against the unprotected ones. 

EssexHebridean

LV_426 said:

BlueVeranda said:

We took out indemnity against it when we bought close to a church prior to 2013, having read about the headline cases where one household ended up being liable for expensive repairs.

I understand that the law has changed since then so that church councils need to register their interest on properties but I am not sure whether it's obvious unless the house has been sold since 2013. If this is the first such sale and your solicitor has concerns it may be liable then the indemnity is great value for peace of mind.

I trust the solicitor and she has raised it as a possible risk, so I think I'll take out the indemnity policy. It's a drop in the ocean, compared to the other huge costs of moving.

This - 100%. Chances are that you will never have any issues with it at all,  but if you do, then the money will feel like it was well spent. I would suggest asking your solicitor to check on the price of the policy though as from memory £90 feels a bit expensive... 

LV_426

daivid said:

I bought in 2016 and was offered an indemnity for £15 it felt like a money spinner but at the price it wasn’t worth spending time researching - and as my indemnity was based on uncertain liability had I discovered the property was liable I'd have no longer been entitled to the £15 indemnity. At £90 and with a £100k limit I think I would be refusing. I cannot see any Church going after repair liability from normal home owners as surely the 1st time it happens will bring about a change in the law and a backlash against the CoE. 

Can you remember who provided your indemnity policy?

LV_426

Can I ask where you can obtain a chancel repair policy independently?
Because the broker I talked to said they did not sell direct to housebuyers, and only dealt with conveyancing solicitors.
But of course to get the solicitor to check into alternatives will cost £££ and outweigh any savings on the premium.

daivid

LV_426 said:

daivid said:

I bought in 2016 and was offered an indemnity for £15 it felt like a money spinner but at the price it wasn’t worth spending time researching - and as my indemnity was based on uncertain liability had I discovered the property was liable I'd have no longer been entitled to the £15 indemnity. At £90 and with a £100k limit I think I would be refusing. I cannot see any Church going after repair liability from normal home owners as surely the 1st time it happens will bring about a change in the law and a backlash against the CoE. 

Can you remember who provided your indemnity policy?

It is provided by Legal & Contingency, it was the (only) one the solicitor advocated. Mine is limited to £250k which would hopefully get enough skin in the game for the insurance co to contest a claim for anything like that amount or more, in reflection £100k may achieve the same end. For context my house is one of 150ish built on the same parcel of land that once belonged to the manor house. From what I recall the Church can choose to go after as many or few of the liable properties as they like but the fallout would be huge if they chose to send the whole bill to one standard family home.

TBagpuss said:

daivid said:

I bought in 2016 and was offered an indemnity for £15 it felt like a money spinner but at the price it wasn’t worth spending time researching - and as my indemnity was based on uncertain liability had I discovered the property was liable I'd have no longer been entitled to the £15 indemnity. At £90 and with a £100k limit I think I would be refusing. I cannot see any Church going after repair liability from normal home owners as surely the 1st time it happens will bring about a change in the law and a backlash against the CoE. 

The first time (in recent memory) it happened was in 2009, and it did result in a change in the law. The change protects homeowners where the property changes hands after 2013 and where the church hasn't registered an interest against the property before that transfer complete. The people concerned were liable to pay £235,000 and ended up having to sell their home (in fairness they did have legal fees on top, but even so, it's a lot of money to lose) 

So - if the house you are buying has changed hands since 2013 and there's noting recorded on the deeds, you are fine and don't need the policy.

If it hasn't changes hands then the church could still register their interest and you and any future buyer would be stuffed. 
One problem is that  in many cases, the people having to decide whether to claim / register and rights are trustees on the church / parish council, and they have a legal duty to act in the best interest of the beneficiary of the trust (normally the church / parish) so they are in a catch 22 situation where if they don't register, then they could be seen as failing in their legal duty and therefore personally liable, if they do, it's a very bad look for them and the local church.

Some parishes took decisions not to register and I think got the blessing of the CofE / indemnities from the church to protect themselves, but not all. 

I think, also , that they don't necessarily have to split any liability equally, so of there is a group of properties and some have changes hands recently and others haven't, they can still register the liability against the unprotected ones. 

Glebe Farm (clue in the name as you probably knew) is at the extreme end, the owners knew that the liability existed (though believed it to be defunct) and the property was, IIRC, the original property that benefited from the tithe exemption that chancel repair liability conveyed 100s of years ago. I don’t believe there have been any instances of chancel repair liability  being claimed against a typical house e.g. on a 20th century housing development.