Are all suppliers like this?

matt_drummer

dealyboy said:

Sorry ... I'm completely confused by this latest round.

I think I'm agreeing but I'm not sure. Suppliers want 30 minute clock granularity readings in order to apply flexible dynamic pricing rates accurately for differing 30 minute intervals. They don't need to pull that data in real time if they are accounting a day or two in arrears, once a day should be sufficient and efficient. The customer needs to opt for 30 minute reads if not set by default.

For the different purpose of monthly billing only one reading a month is required.

In my case, with EDF, both 30 minute (energy hub) and monthly reads (whole of bill monthly) are taken.

Yes.you are correct

    dealyboy said:

    In my case, with EDF, both 30 minute (energy hub) and monthly reads (whole of bill monthly) are taken.

I don't know about your EDF situation, do you allow them access to 30 minute data?

If you do then they can produce your bill from that as they just need to take the closing reading on the last day of the month and deduct the closing reading from the last day of the previous month.

What is the EDF energy hub?



Are you concerned about something or is it just a general question?

[Deleted User]

dealyboy said:

Sorry ... I'm completely confused by this latest round.

I think I'm agreeing but I'm not sure. Suppliers want 30 minute clock granularity readings in order to apply flexible dynamic pricing rates accurately for differing 30 minute intervals. They don't need to pull that data in real time if they are accounting a day or two in arrears, once a day should be sufficient and efficient. The customer needs to opt for 30 minute reads if not set by default.

For the different purpose of monthly billing only one reading a month is required.

In my case, with EDF, both 30 minute (energy hub) and monthly reads (whole of bill monthly) are taken.

The default profile for newly installed smart meters is 30 usage recording as this data is required by the industry as it moves to 30 minute settlements. The Grid also needs this information to better manage supply with demand. The problem is that consumers forget that smart metering is but one element of a Smart Grid that all modern countries are in the process of building as more variable renewables come online.

markin

It will likely be far faster to switch than expect BG to fix it.

Gerry1

Dolor said:

The Grid also needs this information to better manage supply with demand. The problem is that consumers forget that smart metering is but one element of a Smart Grid that all modern countries are in the process of building as more variable renewables come online.

The Grid also needs this information to restrict demand to the available supply. The problem is that smart metering is but one element of a Smart Grid that all modern countries are in the process of building as more variable renewables come online.

Once the rollout is complete, when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining then your cuddly smart meter will be ready to reveal its true purpose i.e. to nudge (Surge Pricing), restrict (Load Limiting) or even prevent you (Load Shedding) you using whatever you want whenever you want it.

FTFY ! 😈

(I know @[Deleted User] won't accuse me, but for anyone about to mention conspiracy theories and tinfoil hats, it's all there in the specification and various departmental documents if you care to check the facts.)

matt_drummer

@Gerry1

If what you say is true, does it matter to you?

If my memory is right I get the feeling that you are careful with your energy use?

Low users have nothing to fear from load limiting if it happens as it will never affect them?


Bringing up standing charges again, I am quite in favour of a tiered system, I think they have this in Spain?

You pay a higher standing charge to have access to a higher total load, I am sure that would please many low users.


As for surge pricing, I can't see any way where smart metered homes will pay more at peak times than those without smart meters.

Refusing smart meters will ultimately end up in a financial penalty as it does in France.

[Deleted User]

The Grid also needs this information to restrict demand to the available supply.

That is one interpretation but not one that I would agree with. The Grid has to assess future demand and, where necessary, make provision to meet it by having additional power generation on standby. We all pay for this ‘insurance’. Renewals have made the problem a lot worse, and without better visibility of consumer usage the Grid would need to have more standby power to call on. The Grid is not only interested in how much energy people use but when they use it. Smart meters provide a level of granularity that analogue meters do not. So my interpretation would be one of The Grid ‘better managing variable supply with demand to reduce costs and potential power restrictions’.

Smart tariffs will undoubtedly include variable pricing. Look at how much people on Octopus’ Agile tariff have been able to save compared to the Cap. If a consumer can agree to a maximum power limit of, say, 5kW from 4 to 7pm for a lower standing charge than an unrestricted tariff what is wrong with that? It is a restriction by mutual consent.

Having said that, based on what is happening in other countries, the first step may well be the widespread introduction of 3 rate/time period tariffs with an option to stay on a more expensive single rate tariff. Flexibility to use power in whatever amount and whenever consumers want will come at a price.

Qyburn

Gerry1 said:

The Grid also needs this information to restrict demand to the available supply. The problem is that smart metering is but one element of a Smart Grid that all modern countries are in the process of building as more variable renewables come online.

Once the rollout is complete, when the wind isn't blowing and the sun isn't shining then your cuddly smart meter will be ready to reveal its true purpose i.e. to nudge (Surge Pricing), restrict (Load Limiting) or even prevent you (Load Shedding) you using whatever you want whenever you want it.

Do you have any references for that? As far as I'm aware all a smart meter can do is measure, return those measurements when queried, and switch the whole supply off or back on again.

How would load limiting work?

Scot_39

I didn't think they were weasel words at all.  Not originally.

If you only give permission for suppliers to take readings daily or monthly (if that's even an option any more ) - I thought they then only took the relevant daily midnight UTC summary totals - iirc so called - index information - which again can be daily or monthly as I understand the original smets1 specs - not the full 48 1/2 hr data tables.

Smets2 EMSE specs could be different of-course.

But they could easily make it a condition of accepting a new smart meter - and do so from that point on.

Scot_39

matt_drummer said:

@Gerry1



As for surge pricing, I can't see any way where smart metered homes will pay more at peak times than those without smart meters.

Agile customers in EM - were paying c47/48p a couple of days ago at 6pm - that's a real example of surge pricing.

Agile by it's very nature is a demand based tariff - and the people who go on it - should be well aware of that - and from posts here - many clearly are.

But that's a world away from some customers at the one supplier (AFAIK the only major domestic 'spot' pricing trackers) - offering customers that option - to the level - that saying because it's technically an option it's going to be enforced on everyone.

Wholesale trackers have existed in other countries for domestic supply for longer than Octopus's trackers.  It doesn't mean they are the only tariff available.

I am not on Agile - but now take an interest in it. As block time of use goes out of favour (even E7 looking at risk - and Ofgem support that far more than other legacy tariffs like E10, WM etc)

The flip side - and why many are loyal converts - in summer Agile users were paid to consume (-Ve tariffs) in certain 1/2 hour slots and saw far cheaper than EPG / SVT daily average rates (by time - each users weighted average price different) . 

Even with that 48p - the daily (simple time) average was still iirc c9-10p below SVT - as was the regional daily tracker price.

I will be looking at this winters number - with interest - as fear last year had too many anomalies - like EPG discounting - and of-course the height of the Ukraine crisis pricing (Jan Ofgem cap c£4200 etc).

I cannot see the libertarian wing of the Cons party being that keen on mandating Smart meters - or sanctioning a fee for those refusing. But for those objecting France's c€50 is hardly a killer.

After all many DD averse folk choose to pay c10% SC etc - was c£200 under EPG - but now c£140+ at cap level - on standard credit terms.